Michael Moore writes a letter, I respond :-)

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When I vote, I pick up the little pamphlet that has the full text of each bill that I am to vote on. It gives me a chance to see exactly what I am voting on and decide from that, not what a commercial tells me.
People like you make up probably 1% of the voting public.

Tax: the worst three letter word in the Right's vocabulary.
I said I am conservative, and hate taxation that fund's something that I don't find beneficial for the economy (i.e. filling politicians, ANY politicians pockets). But how would this country have anything public without some sort of taxation? I could care less about gas prices in reality. I pay almost 300/month on gasoline. If higher gas prices restricts the number of people that drive trucks and SUVs to only those that actually NEED them, I'm stoked to pay the extra tax on foreign oil. At their highest prices over the sumer, we still paid half of what Europe pays.

A higher import tax would only drive up gas costs... that much of the economy "trickles down" upon us. Then certain people will complain that we're being taxed out the ass and give it an evil sounding name. Unfortunately any way you cut it, we're pretty damn dependant on oil from the Saudis. Drilling in Alaska won't fix that, offshore drilling won't fix that. Everyone can tell us that there is oil in them thar' hills, but they forget that we consume A FUCKING SHITLOAD of oil.
There's got to be some way to get all the soccer moms to to stop driving all those SUVs, and start thinking a little more efficiently. I am also the type of person that thinks that, in order to obtain a driver's license, people should be required to go through the same type of training and renewals as is required to obtain a private pilot's license. I am all for driving and consuming precious commodies (oil) being considered a priviledge rather than a right. Foreigners are amazed when they see 16-18 year olds driving cars here. Looking at the average intelligence of today's teenager's and 20 somethings for that matter, I am stunned that they even passed the laughable tests we have now.

Add on it the fact that we're now competing with places like India for our oil... seeing that we've given their economy a shot in the arm with all the jobs we've shipped over there. China's drinking more than their fair share. These are the reasons oil prices have increased... not the Democrats in Washington.
I am not in any way against Democrats. I think you are confusing me with Silverchild. While I disagree with many stances that Democrats take, I am wholehearted against bipartisan government in general. I don't blame politics for the fact that many CEO's are greedy and take jobs away from the U.S. and give them to foreign countries to save a buck. It's rediculous in my mind, but I'm one of those people you shops at the mom and pop stores if I can help it, and support local business. Politics just makes the world that much more full of drama. My opinion, the reason that oil prices have gone up is because the suppliers know that we will pay the price no matter what. Until we show the world we can survive without their oil, we'll just keep paying whatever they ask. We haven't been an independent nation since before WWII. And we have gone downhill with regards to domestic economy ever since.


Three words: Made in China.
See above argument. Cheap ass CEOs need a raise, my ass.

Chew on this: GM has moved several of their plants to Mexico so that they can pay workers there pennies on the dollar to produce vehicles, while companies like Honda and Toyota open plants in the US.

In effect, if you want to support America, you buy an "import".
It's no longer an "import" if it is made domestically. I would call Chevy more of an import if it is being made in Mexico, or anywhere outside the U.S. It's just one more nail in the proverbial coffin containing my chances of buying a Ford or Chevy. If it doesn't support anything but the CEO's wallet, screw them. Greedy Bastards. The fact that they make a crappy product helps me sleep even better knowing that I haven't invested in cheap junk.

That's you. To me, Christianity makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Also, why is my way of thinking "alternative"?
And honestly, I would never be able to help you make sense of Christianity if you are decidely against it. It is an alternative way of thinking from my perspective, because I believe in Christianity. To you, Christianity is an alternative way of thinking, because it is not your way of thinking. But if you were Agnostic, Atheism and Bhuddism would be alternatives, just as they are to me. Do you get my point? I am in no way demeaning your value system. I am intolerant in that I do believe Christianity is the only way to have a truly complete life, and the only way that I can go in order to spend eternity with my Creator, and that no other religion can offer that. Why would I believe in something if I thought that its teachings and principles were wrong? The same could be said for anyone who truly believes in something. Do I think you are any less of a person? No. I could quote scripture that says all men are equally sinful, saved by Christ or not, but I won't go into something that you are not interested in hearing. Regardless, I enjoy the fact that you at least have reasons for your "liberal" stance, or whatever you want to label it - I hate labels. The world would be a boring place if everyone had the same opinions about everything. We would be a world of robots.

I believe in what I do because I believe it is right. I have my own set of morals and rules which govern my life.
But where do you think your thoughts came from? Everything has an origin. If not your parents, maybe your teachers? Some mentor? An audiobook? Do you believe a being that came about as a result of macroevolution would have a built in moral code? If so, why do other people have a different moral code than you? I'm not assuming you are a supporter of evolutionary theory, because you haven't said so. But it is common for non-Christians to support that theory, and so I bring it up. Where did your moral code originate? Why do you believe anything is right or wrong, and even more importantly, why do you think your opinions are any more right than anybody elses? I certainly believe that I am right about somethings and others must undoubtedly be wrong, but much of my moral code is based on the Bible and what my parents and mentors have taught me. Am I always right in my thoughts and actions? Certainly not.


Rational thought took a backseat to kneejerk reactions several years ago, unfortunately.
I do unfortunately agree with you on this one. The world must be far too fast paced for people to sit back and think about anything anymore. There is something to be said for gut feelings about things, but everything must be kept in check, and that is certainly not the case for 99% of what goes on in the world.

I got a little long winded there, sorry.
 
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People like you make up probably 1% of the voting public.

And that is so, so sad.

I said I am conservative, and hate taxation that fund's something that I don't find beneficial for the economy (i.e. filling politicians, ANY politicians pockets). But how would this country have anything public without some sort of taxation? I could care less about gas prices in reality. I pay almost 300/month on gasoline. If higher gas prices restricts the number of people that drive trucks and SUVs to only those that actually NEED them, I'm stoked to pay the extra tax on foreign oil. At their highest prices over the sumer, we still paid half of what Europe pays.
Not everyone is. They like their Hummers, Escalades and Denalis. I don't understand it, personally... looks like you don't either ^_^ Back when I was barely making ends meet, gas prices slammed me pretty hard... now they aren't too much of an issue for me, but there are a lot of people out there who are hurting from that extra dollar or so per gallon.

Not only do Europeans pay twice what we pay in gas, they pay per liter AND if you factor in exchange rates (US dollars to UK pounds is almost 2 to 1), they pay a LOT more than us for the same amount of dinosaur juice.

There's got to be some way to get all the soccer moms to to stop driving all those SUVs, and start thinking a little more efficiently. I am also the type of person that thinks that, in order to obtain a driver's license, people should be required to go through the same type of training and renewals as is required to obtain a private pilot's license. I am all for driving and consuming precious commodies (oil) being considered a priviledge rather than a right. Foreigners are amazed when they see 16-18 year olds driving cars here. Looking at the average intelligence of today's teenager's and 20 somethings for that matter, I am stunned that they even passed the laughable tests we have now.
We can break them of their SUV habit... make them illegal. That's about the only way. Jane Shoparound needs room for her four kids and everything her credit card will allow her to buy. God forbid we take her mini Mack truck away from her!

Teenager... intelligence... what? You lost me there.

I am not in any way against Democrats. I think you are confusing me with Silverchild. While I disagree with many stances that Democrats take, I am wholehearted against bipartisan government in general. I don't blame politics for the fact that many CEO's are greedy and take jobs away from the U.S. and give them to foreign countries to save a buck. It's rediculous in my mind, but I'm one of those people you shops at the mom and pop stores if I can help it, and support local business. Politics just makes the world that much more full of drama. My opinion, the reason that oil prices have gone up is because the suppliers know that we will pay the price no matter what. Until we show the world we can survive without their oil, we'll just keep paying whatever they ask. We haven't been an independent nation since before WWII. And we have gone downhill with regards to domestic economy ever since.
Agreed 110%

See above argument. Cheap ass CEOs need a raise, my ass.
Agreed again.

It's no longer an "import" if it is made domestically. I would call Chevy more of an import if it is being made in Mexico, or anywhere outside the U.S. It's just one more nail in the proverbial coffin containing my chances of buying a Ford or Chevy. If it doesn't support anything but the CEO's wallet, screw them. Greedy Bastards. The fact that they make a crappy product helps me sleep even better knowing that I haven't invested in cheap junk.
Most people think Japanese car = import and American car = domestic. It doesn't work that way much anymore. A lot of people still have that "Buy an American car! Support America" ingrained in their minds... but in reality, they're not.

And honestly, I would never be able to help you make sense of Christianity if you are decidely against it.
I am not decidedly against Christianity. Some of its followers, yes. I believe in the right hands, it is a good religion. You learn a great set of morals to lead your life and to treat others with respect. That is lost on many Christians these days.

I have simply chosen a different path. Does it make your choice wrong? Of course not.

It is an alternative way of thinking from my perspective, because I believe in Christianity. To you, Christianity is an alternative way of thinking, because it is not your way of thinking. But if you were Agnostic, Atheism and Bhuddism would be alternatives, just as they are to me. Do you get my point? I am in no way demeaning your value system.
Never said you were. It's just that words like "alternative" and especially "deviant" are usually used in a way to show that they are not normal. That somehow those who are different aren't allowed to fit in. Personally I don't consider myself agnostic or athiest... I just don't have a religion. I leave it at that.

I am intolerant in that I do believe Christianity is the only way to have a truly complete life, and the only way that I can go in order to spend eternity with my Creator, and that no other religion can offer that.

Right on. You have found an ultimate goal for your life. That's how I view religion, it's something that people follow to set that one true goal in their life. I choose not to follow a religion to set my goal in life. However we're not different at all. We do the best we can, treat others they way they would treat us and hope that when we cash in our chips, we did what was right.

Why would I believe in something if I thought that its teachings and principles were wrong? The same could be said for anyone who truly believes in something. Do I think you are any less of a person? No. I could quote scripture that says all men are equally sinful, saved by Christ or not, but I won't go into something that you are not interested in hearing. Regardless, I enjoy the fact that you at least have reasons for your "liberal" stance, or whatever you want to label it - I hate labels. The world would be a boring place if everyone had the same opinions about everything. We would be a world of robots.

But where do you think your thoughts came from? Everything has an origin. If not your parents, maybe your teachers? Some mentor? An audiobook? Do you believe a being that came about as a result of macroevolution would have a built in moral code? If so, why do other people have a different moral code than you?
A little bit of everything. I just take everything and put it through my giant sifter and follow what I believe is good and best for myself and those around me. Take for example some of the more touchy issues...

Gay Marriage: I want to be married one day. Not for religious or tax purposes as some would like to believe, but because I love the person I am with enough that I am willing to be bound to them both legally and morally. "I love you, I want to spend the rest of my days with you, let me prove it to you." What right do I have to deny anybody that which I seek for myself, regardless of who it is they feel that way for?

Abortion: Not my body, not my choice. You want to do that, then you have to live with that decision for the rest of your life. Will it come back to haunt you? Well, you should consider that when deciding on having that proceedure done. Do *I* believe in abortion? No. Not one bit. I was given that choice when I first found out I was going to be a father. It was decided that I was to have the final word on whether that child was to come into this world or not. I flatly refused without question. That's how I feel. However I won't stand in the way of you doing something because I don't believe in it.

I'm not assuming you are a supporter of evolutionary theory, because you haven't said so.
I do. If you are asking why I support the theory of evolution, I have no problem telling you. It's because evolution is based on science. They look at a situation and derive an answer, or theory, from the evidence they have at hand. I do believe that evolution is a theory since it cannot be 100% proven, but for now it's the best we've got. The neat thing is that science will change when new evidence is found. If something comes along that proves something else besides evolution 100%, then that is what I will believe.

Again, it is still a theory... but remember that the theory of relativity is still just a theory, yet is being proven right over and over again. One day it could be proven completely wrong. Doing that simply advances science even farther.

But it is common for non-Christians to support that theory, and so I bring it up. Where did your moral code originate? Why do you believe anything is right or wrong, and even more importantly, why do you think your opinions are any more right than anybody elses? I certainly believe that I am right about somethings and others must undoubtedly be wrong, but much of my moral code is based on the Bible and what my parents and mentors have taught me. Am I always right in my thoughts and actions? Certainly not.
It originated by looking at how others are treated and thinking, "Would I want to be treated that way?"

I believe my opinions are more right than anyone elses *for me*. Those are just my views. The trick is that I don't try to make anyone else follow my views and opinions. I don't tell people that they should do as I believe simply because I believe them. Everybody's going to have conflicting opinions, can't get around that at all. In retrospect, I don't want to be forced to follow what someone else thinks is right because of their views and opinions.

I do unfortunately agree with you on this one. The world must be far too fast paced for people to sit back and think about anything anymore. There is something to be said for gut feelings about things, but everything must be kept in check, and that is certainly not the case for 99% of what goes on in the world.

I got a little long winded there, sorry.
The world isn't that fast paced... we simply think it is. When something happens, no matter what, we need to have at least a few minutes to think about the situation before jumping in feet first and wind up in a situation that we can't get out of. Take the current situation with Iraq... we got sucker punched in the face big time when Osama attacked. Instead of backing up, shaking it off and getting a grip on the entire situation, we just started swinging blindly and wound up hitting someone that had nothing to do with the original attack. Now we're between Iraq and a hard place with no end in sight while the person who is responsible for the attacks runs free, planning his next punch.

Now that the cat has his paws full, all the other mice are coming out of the woodwork and there's not much we can do besides arch our back and hiss.


EDIT x11tybillion... getting my quote tags straight.
 
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It originated by looking at how others are treated and thinking, "Would I want to be treated that way?"

I believe my opinions are more right than anyone elses *for me*. Those are just my views. The trick is that I don't try to make anyone else follow my views and opinions. I don't tell people that they should do as I believe simply because I believe them. Everybody's going to have conflicting opinions, can't get around that at all. In retrospect, I don't want to be forced to follow what someone else thinks is right because of their views and opinions.

Unfortunately you may be made to have to stand up for your beliefs in opposition to someone elses, then what? It isn't then allowed merely a passive response. Morals, IMO aren't subject to opinion, or at least they shouldn't be. Otherwise morals would be of little value to anyone. To actively follow a moral code is to inevitably bring your morals into the lives of those you interact with.

One example: I believe getting drunk is wrong, because the Bible says it is a sin, and also because I have seen nothing but problems and worse things come from being drunk, from my own experiences as well as my friends. I don't think the Bible says that random things are wrong and right; there is a good reason for it all. So, I don't get drunk. I do drink on occasion, but not to the point that I couldn't walk, or whatever. I know my limit for that, and stay well away from that. My friends choose to go drink and get hammered. I will go with them, but I have to resist their desire for me to drink more. I impose my morals on them in that way. I'm not going to tell them not to drink til they drop, but I will tell them that I don't approve of what they do. Of course, I'm always the dedicated driver.

Regardless, I have successfully gotten way off topic. But note: I have much more respect for your (Sabz) liberal stance than I have for a lot of my friends' conservative stance. It's nice to see that there are some thinking people left in the world.
 
It's nice to see that there are some thinking people left in the world.

Wow, a thread with some actual intelligent arguments and conversation about politics and personal views, for once, instead of the usual name calling, crying, and side stepping. This thread should get an award or something. Well done Sabz and Mike.
 
"good going Sabz"

Hello ladies and gentlemen. What you've seen here is a world with a "Cel". The "No Celerity for a day" programme has shown that without your local, Legal, Celerities any and all scratching on the walls would go unchecked - accepted as normal.

well it's not normal. I encourage you all to support your local Celerity.
 
Wow, a thread with some actual intelligent arguments and conversation about politics and personal views, for once, instead of the usual name calling, crying, and side stepping. This thread should get an award or something. Well done Sabz and Mike.

Strangely, 95% of these types of topics on Hondaswap end up this way, too. I've honestly never seen anything like it on a forum. It's why I come to a car site for all my political discussions. :)
 
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