Tookie Williams Night Night

[Guy]

What i am trying to get is a moral justification for killing a person who has already been taken out of society. Not sure how that is being stupid, but if belligerence is how you deal with opposing opinions, then I've got nothing for you.
with regard to the statistics, it isnt me that is pointing this out, it is amnesty international. And if you want to deny the ability of statistics to be used to describe trends, then what do you have left?
aren't you a bit old for name calling?

Slushbox, the problem here is that you do not have a rational foundation to base your idea on. Giving conflicting quotes from the bible and the Quar'an do not establish any ideological firmament to base those beliefs on.
As to the slippery slope, i was using your logic. Earlier you were using killers escaping and killing as a justification for killing them. using that rationale as justification for the death penalty was the slippery slope and i was only trying to show you your logic. Im glad that you at least picked up on the slippery slope.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

I guess the moral of this story boys and girls is that the world won't believe your anti-violence after you start one of the largest street wars in history and murder four people.... boy who thought that wouldn't work?

 

[SlushboxTeggy]

Quoted post[/post]]
Slushbox, the problem here is that you do not have a rational foundation to base your idea on. Giving conflicting quotes from the bible and the Quar'an do not establish any ideological firmament to base those beliefs on.
As to the slippery slope, i was using your logic. Earlier you were using killers escaping and killing as a justification for killing them. That was the slippery slope and i was only trying to show you your logic. Im glad that you at least picked up on the slippery slope.

i believe in Lex Talionis, life for a life. if you premeditate to kill someone then you should die. i wasnt using a slippery slope as you did though. my justification for killing them was the fact that they already had killed someone. the fact that they could get out, whether through parole or escape, and kill again is further justification. im just amazed that the 276 prior homocide convictions of the people on death row is not enough justification for everyone here. my believes are based on philosophy and logic, rather than an old book.

 

[Guy]

Logically speaking, the goal of prevention of reoffence would be achieved both ways. Given the costs associated with the death penalty, it just makes more sense to keep them in prison for life, as the desired goal is achieved and its cheaper. Logic, check.
Philosophy: well, what philosophical school are we talking about here? Are we talking about Utilitarianism? Well, it seems to me that keeping Stan Williams alive to serve as an example and to promote his anti-gang writting would serve society better than just killing him. Experience counts for something. Lets look at this from the Viewpoint of Kant's universal maxim. Killing is wrong, right? well, in all cases killing is wrong, so if that's your maxim, then killing is always wrong. Those are the only two schools of philosophy i can think of at the moment, but i think i've dispatched your logic and "philosophy".
Philosophy, check.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Flammin Liberal: check

you know why the death penalty costs so damn much? It isn't because it has to. Next time your in home depo check out what rope costs per foot.

and the last thing you do with someone who kills four people is make them a respected author. Keep them alive so they can serve as some former gang celeb and gain fame, if not fortune, from what they've done? Simply because they decided it was a bad idea to kill people (something the rest of the world didn't have to kill four people to figure out)? I think you need to rethink what you said before you check your logic box....

 

[StealthMode]

That's why the US should lean towards laws such as the Code of Hammurabi. You get caught stealing, they take your hand. You kill someone, you're killed immediately. Now, I'm not saying that our police force walk around with bayoneted M16s and blast the next fucker who shoplifts. But swift and efficient punishment will take care of a lot of headaches. The appeal process and court procedures is part of the reason why it's so easy for repeat offenders to offend repeatedly.

 

[E_SolSi]

Quoted post[/post]]
"WAHHHHHHHHH he called me names!!!!!"

oh yeah...........
havent seen you post in a while...
i forgot that you were the fucking crybaby asshole that screams foul whenever someone disagrees with you and atacks your arguement

there now im calling you names
belligerence???
what i said before was in no way belligerent
belligerence would be me saying that i wanted to smash your skull with a brick

happy now???
ok good
now that thats out of the way

Quoted post[/post]]
What i am trying to get is a moral justification for killing a person who has already been taken out of society. Not sure how that is being stupid, but if belligerence is how you deal with opposing opinions, then I've got nothing for you.
with regard to the statistics, it isnt me that is pointing this out, it is amnesty international. And if you want to deny the ability of statistics to be used to describe trends, then what do you have left?
aren't you guys a bit old for name calling?

trying to get "a moral justification for killing a person who has already been taken out of society" is not stupid
trying to say that putting someone to death is the same as killing an entire class of people because they are more likely to commit a crime, is very fucking stupid
i was in no way being belligerent when i said you were being stupid and trying to get a reaction
i was being honest in my oppinion of what you were doing
but if you are serious, and you really dont see a difference between putting somone to death after they have been convicted of a serious crime, and murdering off an entire class of people because they are more likely than another class of people to comit crimes... damn, i dont even know what to say to that Hitler (oh no!! i just resorted to name calling again didnt i??? )

my "moral justification for killing a person who has already been taken out of society" is that they will never get out of prison therefore rehabilitation for them is pretty much pointless... they will never be members of society so who gives a shit how reformed they are or are not... keeping them alive in prison eats up space and recources that could be used for prisoners that actually do have a chance of returning to society... prisoners facing death, or life without paroll tend to cause much more trouble in prisons, because they just dont care (what are you going to do, give them another life sentance??)
i know no one is going to change their oppinions on capital punishment based on a thread on a honda board... im just explaining my view that if someone is taken out of society without the possibility of returning i see no reason for keeping them alive, eating up tax payers money

but it has already been established in several other threads that i hold little value for the lives of people who offer no good to society or those who refuse to try to help themselves (this does not include those that can not help themselves, such as; the very young, the very old, the sick, the injured, etc... i do have some heart)

i wasnt saying that it was YOU who bent those statistics into a racial arguement... i was simply saying that they were
the percentage of a certain race in american population, is completely unrelated to the percentage of that race in the prison population...
trying to compare the two, is trying to imply that equal portions of all races perform an equal ammount of equally severe crimes, and therefore should be equally represented in both the national population and the prison population
sorry but this simply isnt the case

 

[StarBellieAngel]

well, let's think on this... whatever your opinions are... he's gonna get the injection... and nothing you argue about on hondaswap will change it.

and i'm not being a bitch here, or trying to be. i'm just mentioning. discuss.

 

[E_SolSi]

Quoted post[/post]]
Flammin Liberal: check

you know why the death penalty costs so damn much? It isn't because it has to. Next time your in home depo check out what rope costs per foot.

and the last thing you do with someone who kills four people is make them a respected author. Keep them alive so they can serve as some former gang celeb and gain fame, if not fortune, from what they've done? Simply because they decided it was a bad idea to kill people (something the rest of the world didn't have to kill four people to figure out)? I think you need to rethink what you said before you check your logic box....

the death penalty costs so much because we pay for them to appeal it as many times as they want, and we keep them in maximum security for YEARS while they do it
its not the actual death penalty that costs so much
its paying for all of their lawyers and other random fees that they build up durring their appeals
pure bullshit IMO

if you are sentenced to death you should get 1 chance for an appeal within 5 years, then you're put to death
if you refuse the right for an appeal you are immediately put to death
if you can not produce evidence to supply a "reasonable doubt" within 5 years, you're guilty

 

[phyregod]

Well well well.. a few hours and this fucker will be dead. Crossed off of the list of the living.

All your political bullshit can stop now. It won't make any difference. Liberal, conservative.. Everyone STFU and watch this man die. Enjoy america's justice system at its finest. Kill and be killed. You can't take another person's life and keep your own. Its sad that several murderers actually only serve a few years and get paroled, and are back out on the streets with the rest of us. Hopefully this message will ring out loud to the next gangsta-thug mother fucker standing over another person with a shotgun to his back. I hope tookie gurgles and everyone laughs at him for years to come.

He will reap what he has sown.

And I will laugh at him when he dies.

 

[Guy]

Quoted post[/post]]
"WAHHHHHHHHH he called me names!!!!!"

oh yeah...........
havent seen you post in a while...
i forgot that you were the fucking crybaby asshole that screams foul whenever someone disagrees with you and atacks your arguement

there now im calling you names
belligerence???
what i said before was in no way belligerent
belligerence would be me saying that i wanted to smash your skull with a brick

happy now???
ok good

you're so hardcore. I wanna be just like you when I grow up.

Eh, its your perogative to call me name. if anything it shows your inability to reasonably cope with my opinion. Though I'm not sure that i've quite called foul in this instance, or ever cried foul or anything of that nature in the past, but if you can find a past example otherwise i would be happy to be proven wrong.
Sure, its monetarially expediant to kill people with minimal appeals, but there is a price to that expediency. Namely, you will kill innocent people. Even with our apperantly excessive appeal system, innocents have been killed and later vindicated. In any case, here's to hoping that neither you nor a family member is never accused, wrongly, of a murder and only given one appeal.
Morality does not equal politics. Keep that in mind
that aside, its been fun stirring things up here, but i've got a final to study for.

 

[YouKnowWhoIBee]

i will not laugh but i will not fell sorry for him. He deserved the death penalty 100%. He only wants to change his life to live... but what about the people he has injured and killed? They cannot have life so neither should he.

 

[Celerity]

How about we stop making our diapers leaky about this gang starting meatbag and start making a bigger deal out of Leonard Peltier ?

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Nope they're gonna have to stay his execution for awhile. Cause I'm suing his ass for wasting my tax dollars!

 

[dveit]

Somewhere in this thread is the price of the actual price of lethal inject and really cheap, like under $10 of some shit. I dunno, I'm too lazy to look. But like E said, it's all those fucking worthless appeals that cost us $$$$.

 

[SlushboxTeggy]

Quoted post[/post]]
Somewhere in this thread is the price of the actual price of lethal inject and really cheap, like under $10 of some shit. I dunno, I'm too lazy to look. But like E said, it's all those fucking worthless appeals that cost us $$$$.

nah it costs 86.08. but its still cheap as shit. and i agree with the one appeal thing. if you dont get it right the first time you are put to death. most people stay on death row in between 9-23 years. and appeal as much as they fucking want. like i said, the death penalty cost $86.08, yet somehow the process costs more than 2 million more than a life sentence.

 

[dveit]

yeah, I was way off, but still. that's fucking ridiculous.

 

[StealthMode]

Quoted post[/post]]
somehow the process costs more than 2 million more than a life sentence.

And it's because they are allowed as many damn appeals as they want. Fucking stupid. Meanwhile, their lawyers aren't doing it for charity.

 

[Battle Pope]

Wow. Leave it to E and Guy to make this thread blow up.

 

[SlushboxTeggy]

Quoted post[/post]]

Quoted post[/post]]
somehow the process costs more than 2 million more than a life sentence.

And it's because they are allowed as many damn appeals as they want. Fucking stupid. Meanwhile, their lawyers aren't doing it for charity.

exactly.