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440cc vs 550cc injectors

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by HellBentHONDA, Mar 26, 2004.

  1. HellBentHONDA

    HellBentHONDA Senior Member

    ok so im looking to buy some saturated injectors and was gonna for sure buy some 440's :D but now i see some 550's for the same price :unsure:

    my main concern is the driveability of the 550's w/o hondata (i'll buy hondata by mid summer). anybody have ANY idea how rough at idle it might be? vs 440's?


    '93 CX Hatch
    aftermarket clutch good to 450hp
    7.5lb flywheel
    stock B18C1 internals-obd1
    new t3/04e 6-10psi boost.. (to start, then lower CR and strengthen bottom end for sick boost)
    190L/hr Walbro inline fuel pump
    38mm Tial wastegate
    & other goodies worth mentioning..

    ..also looking for a good adjustable or 1:1 ratio RRFPR if anybody knows a SITE.. i know the brands
  2. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

    I'm planning on getting some 550's also but I wasn't going to put them in until I got hondata. i'm not really sure about how idle will be 440cc vs. 550cc.
  3. RENR

    RENR Senior Member

    just depends on how u have them tuned.
  4. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    witht he safc at its make negative %, you're going to flood and have some wash out at idel. 440's are pretty much THE limit.

    why not buy them both at the same time- the hondata and the 550s? or at least put them in at the same time
  5. HellBentHONDA

    HellBentHONDA Senior Member

    uggh.. not what i wanted to hear but its just that i want Hondata with the works

    $295 Base s200 system - speed limiter removed (if applicable), tunable fuel and ignition tables, expanded rpm fuel & ignition tables, VTEC control, adjustable rev limiter.
    $200 Boost capability. Needed for turbo or supercharged applications
    $200 Datalogging capability. Required if you want to tune it yourself
    $200 ROM Editor V3 (requires datalogging). Required for tuning yourself.
    $270 Programmer with emulator board (requires ROM Editor V3) Required for tuning yourself

    that adds up to $1165.. OUCH! :( i dont even have a laptop. i guess DATALOGGING could wait cause it can be enabled with a numeric key and the programmer too so thats $695. doable.

    any recommendations B? thanks for your input :)
  6. meredith

    meredith Junior Member

    Damn HellBentHonda. I'm getting all excited hearing you talk about all these devices that will let you tune your own vehicle. :burnout:

    I can't wait till I'm at the same lvl as you guys.

    One can dream can't he?!
  7. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator


    dont buy all that stuff for tuning. a hondata tuner will have all that stuff already. you will just pay like 200 for the dyno time.
  8. kyleirwin

    kyleirwin Retired OG

  9. HellBentHONDA

    HellBentHONDA Senior Member

    meredith- i thought you were a gir?? anyway, i myself get all excited too thinking about the swoooosh of the RFL BOV-the loudest on the market- and the stupified look of that guy in his V-aint as i pass him with my 1.8L :D

    GSRCRXsi-at $200 every time i want to tune which will be once now and at least once again later when i build the bottom end thats $400. so i was just thinkin why not spend 6 bills now(or a little later) and have unlimited tuning and be able to tune other peoples shizz too. i know a friend of mine is thinking of buying a honda. i dont know.. are you trying to confuse me :p j/k

    kylemarhx-i didnt see any prices there but then again i didnt look too long :roll:
  10. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    sorry my last post didn't make too much sense. lol After re-reading it, i don't even know what I was trying to say

    basically, you only have 35% to play with on the vafc- up and down. 440/240 = 1.83X bigger injector.

    now, off boost, in idel area, your car wants, say, 50cc of fuel (just making up numbers here... i really don't know the exact consumption).
    1.8X50 = 91cc is what the 440's will feed it.
    50/91 = .54, or 54%.
    its running 54% more fuel than stock at that given rpm point.
    with the vafc at -35%, simple math will tell you that you are dumping in way too much fuel- 19% too much in fact, even wth the vafc set to cut it all.
    go to 550's, and that number increases even more.

    hondata is NOT that expensive. I would not recommend anyone to tune their car themselves if they don't know what they are doing.
    I am paying someone else to tune mine, and a lot of you think i know a lot about turbos and tuning. fact is, i don't. At least not enough to the point where i feel confident in my knowledge of EFI. and i'm not willing to let my lack of knowledge blow up $10k in parts.

    the base hondata unit is $495 with boost option. http://hondata.com/prices.html
    then, you need a chipped ecu. if you aren't confident in doing this yourself, hondata has a service to do it for you for under 100 bucks round trip shipped (you send them your ecu), or, you can buy one of their pre-chipped p28's. That's what i did. That way, you can keep your stock ecu if you need to go to emissions, or part out, or whatever
    that's ALL you need.
    some dealers will sell below msrp as well. call wiredspeed.com for their latest price. good shop, good people, good parts, good prices. I've bought from them 4 or 5 times now and have been very happy with their service and prices.
    everything else, the tuner will have. if he doesn't, hes not a hondata tuner. go somewhere else. I can probably recommend someone in your area, as long as you aren't in the woods next to nothing.

    dyno tuning is expensive. its roughly 50-100 an hour for dyno time, and then you have to pay your tuner. expect 4-500 bucks for your intial tune. but that depends on the tuner, and the dyno.
    if you tune once, and don't change anything, that's really all you'll ever have to get tuned for.
  11. HellBentHONDA

    HellBentHONDA Senior Member

    lmao yeah i was almost more confused :lol: but i got the point and you cleared it up with your last post.

    i thought hondata had an area where DIY's can post their settings and you can kind of copy similar setups, not sure. thanks for the insight on the injectors at idle Brian. ill look into wiredspeed.com and see if i cant find a hondata tuner here in WA state.

    not sure if i want to tune it myself but for now im gonna go with hondata s200 and boost option with 550cc RC's. :)
  12. kyleirwin

    kyleirwin Retired OG

    that's because it's free :D . do a 'lil more research y0.
  13. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    if you want to travel to oregon, there's a good shop there...
  14. HellBentHONDA

    HellBentHONDA Senior Member

    ok i looked into it but im not gonna chip my ecu with this info:

    1.Desolder all holes for the components.
    2.Solder in a 28 pin socket. (Empty footprint)
    3.Solder in the 74HC373. (Empty footprint)
    4.Solder a 1.1K ohm resistor into R54 location marked in white lettering (not needed on P72 USDM GSR) (Note: 1K - 10K resistors seem to work ok. This is a simple pull up/pull down resistor. 1K resistors seem to work well with ROM emulators that have trouble with 10k resistors)
    5.Solder in two 0.1uF ceramic disc capacitors into C51 and C52.
    6.Solder in J1. This jumper can activated by utilizing an unused resistor lead or extra section of spare wire.
    7.Insert the 28 pin DIP PROM in the proper orientation and start the car.
    the software looks very much like hondata, which is fine if you didnt have to perform all that surgery on the ECU. i wonder if uberdata's software would work with a chipped ECU from hondata? prob not.. :huh:

    Yeah Brian whats the name or # of that shop? -thanks

    still looking for rising rate FPR with 1:1 ratio.
  15. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

  16. HellBentHONDA

    HellBentHONDA Senior Member

    huh :huh: its a rising rate fpr for boost? then why do people use aftermarket fpr's?
  17. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    i think you're thinking of an FMU... a stock fpr is a 1:1 unit that sets base presure.
    and fmu adds 12:1 (or 12 psi of fuel for every 1 psi of boost)
  18. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

    I have a Vortech 12:1 FMU for sale if you're interested PM me.
  19. HellBentHONDA

    HellBentHONDA Senior Member

    hey Brian got a question. at idle with 440's or 550's, why wont my O2 smell rich and tell the ECU to tell the injectors 'whoa fellas!' ? why wont the ECU cut fuel to the injectors?
  20. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    to a certain extent, yes, but it doesn't have enough of a range to do so properly. its designed for 240's.
    if it sees its runnign rich, its going to cut it a point or two. a point or two on 240s is like .5 or 1 on 440s

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