B16 Vs B18ls

[Canuck 93 Civic Si]

If these two engines were able to extract every bit of power from the gasoline possible, obviously the b18 would come out on top. Granted that the two engines having the exact same setup ( VTEC + turbo + all the other goodies ) isnt very reasonable to compare without placing two cars on the track and running them, it always seems to come down to, " there is no replacement for displacement."

 

[chet]

it amazes me how everyone here can theorize about which setup is faster. the fact remains, an ls motor will only rev to 6700rpm and make power to about 6500. while you may make more torque in the lower rpm's, from vtec onward a b16a will simply make more power. VTEC heads flow amazingly well, especially the b16a heads which are nearly identical to type R heads.

i've seen a b16a with stock bore (still 1.6 liters) that put down 406whp. torque was around 250 or so, and i don't know of any ls-turbo setups that will make 406whp without more work. the fact remains, VTEC heads are far superior to the simpler and less flowing ls head.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm with Chet,my friends B16vx (two of us on post) wails our other buddies 325i which puts down 169ftlbs,granted it is about 800lbs heavier,but it pretty much embarasses most cars around town,and they are both skilled drivers.

 

[heterosapian]

I can get a b16 swap for as much or LESS than i can an LS (thats mount kit and all) so I see no reason why not to get the b16 BUT the fact remains that an LS in a realistic driving situation seems to be the way to go for quick ass-whoopins. I dont like being behind ever, its not cool to need to go 90 miles an hour in order to finally catch up and pass someone. And I think I'm going turbo, non-built, so internal issues and the being behind thing shouldnt be a problem with the b16/mild boost.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by heterosapian@Feb 28 2003, 12:43 AM
I dont like being behind ever, its not cool to need to go 90 miles an hour in order to finally catch up and pass someone.

Where do you get that from?trust me you'll "catch up" and pass well before 90mph.

 

[Domeskilla]

Originally posted by chet@Feb 27 2003, 06:17 PM
i've seen a b16a with stock bore (still 1.6 liters) that put down 406whp. torque was around 250 or so, and i don't know of any ls-turbo setups that will make 406whp without more work. the fact remains, VTEC heads are far superior to the simpler and less flowing ls head.

Of course it will take more work, what was done to achieve a number was NEVER an issue.

Who cares if it makes power from 2500--7000, if you shift at 7000 and stay in your powerband, you will continue to make power. The two engines make power in 2 different powerbands. It was about racing.. racing you use your power band. You dont try and see who can rev the highest. If i make 1000tq at 2400 rpms.. i'm going to keep my motor at 2400 rpms to fully use 1000tq. You make the same up top, you have to keep it up top to use it. Just b/c i dont rev as high, doesn't mean you are any better.

Our mach1 prostreet. all motor 428 super cobra jet is making 625 or so tq at 8200 rpms. If you make less at 9000 rpms, that doesn't mean you are faster just b/c you can rev higher.

140tq from a LS at what rpm? the b16 makes 111 (b16a2) at a higher rpm. Just b/c you are revving higher, doesn't mean you will win automatically. Its all about the powerband how its geared to use it.

 

[tdehnel]

Both motors are bolted to suitable transmissions that keep each motor in its respective powerband (maybe you'll drop out of it for 500rpm). Honda engineers worked for months on gear ratios for the LS, TypeR, GSR, Si and SiR and if you're on this board chances are you've got one of those transmissions. I'm also sure that most people here have got the right transmission for their setup. Personally, I've got a turbo B16A2 with that matching trans from the 00 Si, and as soon as I get into vtec in first gear (in a matter of seconds), I stay in vtec all the way through 4th (like I said, give or take 500rpms).

Anyway, my point is this, LS motors make their power lower than the B16, but the respective transmissions keep each motor in it's powerband. There's no point saying that the B16 makes no power down low because when you're racing in a B16 powered car, you're not at low rpms. Each motor is going to be at it's powerband when racing, so it is neccessary to talk about the power an LS motor makes between 4800 and 6500, and the power a B16 makes between 6000 and 7900 (the range in which the trans will keep you). Fact of the matter is, LS is great for turbo (torque, long gears, etc), but when Vtec kicks in with the B16 turbo, it's all over for LS.

Unless the LS can get a big lead in those few seconds when the B16 is not in Vtec (first gear), the B16 is going to win each time (in the same car).

Now, I know that I don't have scientific data here, nor have I built 2 identical cars with different motors, but if you hang around cars long enough you can get a feel for different setups.

In this case, I think the B16 is superior.

 

[ventolin5]

I would go with the b16 also.

My sohc d16z6 has put down two tegs with ls motors both with more and better mods than my car has.

Personaly the only use i would have for a ls engine is to make an ls/vtec
other than that honestly i would rather have my d16z6 than an ls, and i dont like my d16z6.

 

[Domeskilla]

b/c your car weighs less and the motor is 80-85 lbs lighter then the ls motor.

 

[beau_safken]

Originally posted by ventolin5@Mar 2 2003, 01:55 AM
I would go with the b16 also.

My sohc d16z6 has put down two tegs with ls motors both with more and better mods than my car has.

Personaly the only use i would have for a ls engine is to make an ls/vtec
other than that honestly i would rather have my d16z6 than an ls, and i dont like my d16z6.

Somehow that really doesn't sit well for me. A d16z6 with some mods might be able to touch an LS swapped civic, but a stock integra should still be able to beat you. I'm thinking that bad driving is the culprit, not your d16z6. LS/VTEC has some reliability issues if not built right the first time. As long as you were to build it right you shouldn't have those issues. I'm guessing that Ventolin5 only likes the d16z6 due to the big VTEC symbol on the engine. If you want you could get an LS swap and use a paint marker to stencil in a VTEC symbol and I think that would add an easy 20+ horsepower...

 

[T0mMuNi$m]

Originally posted by kylemarhx+Feb 24 2003, 10:16 PM-->

T0mMuNi$m

@Feb 24 2003, 10:02 PM
Just go through the extra work for an h series and no ls or b16 will come close.

you're a moron.

Kyle...dont be a bitch.....ANYONE ON THIS BOARD, tell me that ANY B16 OR B18b civic will come even CLOSE to an H22 civic, PLEASE! Im talking straight drag and stock engines. Dont be a pussy, do the extra work.....i mean hell your doing a swap anyways, so what can touch 200hp, 160 tq, and dont say anything about auto x or the extra work.

 

[Domeskilla]

Originally posted by beau_safken+Mar 2 2003, 02:46 AM-->

ventolin5

@Mar 2 2003, 01:55 AM
I would go with the b16 also.

My sohc d16z6 has put down two tegs with ls motors both with more and better mods than my car has.

Personaly the only use i would have for a ls engine is to make an ls/vtec
other than that honestly i would rather have my d16z6 than an ls, and i dont like my d16z6.

Somehow that really doesn't sit well for me. A d16z6 with some mods might be able to touch an LS swapped civic, but a stock integra should still be able to beat you.

Why? The Teg is heavier, if anything, the Civic with the ls swap would take him. Since his car is lighter, whatever he does to his car and the teg does, he will be as fast aor faster b/c of the weight difference in the motors/cars.

 

[Domeskilla]

Originally posted by T0mMuNi$m+Mar 2 2003, 03:02 AM-->

Originally posted by kylemarhx@Feb 24 2003, 10:16 PM
T0mMuNi$m

@Feb 24 2003, 10:02 PM
Just go through the extra work for an h series and no ls or b16 will come close.  

you're a moron.

Kyle...dont be a bitch.....ANYONE ON THIS BOARD, tell me that ANY B16 OR B18b civic will come even CLOSE to an H22 civic, PLEASE! Im talking straight drag and stock engines. Dont be a pussy, do the extra work.....i mean hell your doing a swap anyways, so what can touch 200hp, 160 tq, and dont say anything about auto x or the extra work.

I would take a b18c5 over a h22 any day. Simply b/c the added 80-85 lbs of the h22 in a civic, almost cancells the 20-30 foot lbs of tq it has over the b18c5. Also, the ITR tranny is geared better for drag/autox then the h22.

 

[beau_safken]

Originally posted by Domeskilla+Mar 2 2003, 03:13 AM-->

Originally posted by beau_safken@Mar 2 2003, 02:46 AM
ventolin5

@Mar 2 2003, 01:55 AM
I would go with the b16 also.

My sohc d16z6 has put down two tegs with ls motors both with more and better mods than my car has.

Personaly the only use i would have for a ls engine is to make an ls/vtec
other than that honestly i would rather have my d16z6 than an ls, and i dont like my d16z6.

Somehow that really doesn't sit well for me. A d16z6 with some mods might be able to touch an LS swapped civic, but a stock integra should still be able to beat you.

Why? The Teg is heavier, if anything, the Civic with the ls swap would take him. Since his car is lighter, whatever he does to his car and the teg does, he will be as fast aor faster b/c of the weight difference in the motors/cars.

True True, but still...I'm thinking the driver's abilities are pretty questionable. I'm trying to remember but I swear there is a 300-400 pound difference between the civic and integra, hell maybe we should put a fat driver in a civic and a skinny guy in the teg and see who would really win right?

 

[Domeskilla]

Originally posted by beau_safken+Mar 2 2003, 03:19 AM-->

Originally posted by Domeskilla@Mar 2 2003, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by beau_safken@Mar 2 2003, 02:46 AM
ventolin5

@Mar 2 2003, 01:55 AM
I would go with the b16 also.

My sohc d16z6 has put down two tegs with ls motors both with more and better mods than my car has.

Personaly the only use i would have for a ls engine is to make an ls/vtec
other than that honestly i would rather have my d16z6 than an ls, and i dont like my d16z6.

Somehow that really doesn't sit well for me. A d16z6 with some mods might be able to touch an LS swapped civic, but a stock integra should still be able to beat you.

Why? The Teg is heavier, if anything, the Civic with the ls swap would take him. Since his car is lighter, whatever he does to his car and the teg does, he will be as fast aor faster b/c of the weight difference in the motors/cars.

True True, but still...I'm thinking the driver's abilities are pretty questionable. I'm trying to remember but I swear there is a 300-400 pound difference between the civic and integra, hell maybe we should put a fat driver in a civic and a skinny guy in the teg and see who would really win right?

Tack the 75-85 lbs more a ls swap weighs then a d16z6 in a civic.

Stick a hamburger at the finish line and the fat guy would surely win then.

 

[2 litre EG]

Originally posted by T0mMuNi$m+Mar 2 2003, 03:02 AM-->

Originally posted by kylemarhx@Feb 24 2003, 10:16 PM
T0mMuNi$m

@Feb 24 2003, 10:02 PM
Just go through the extra work for an h series and no ls or b16 will come close.  

you're a moron.

Kyle...dont be a bitch.....ANYONE ON THIS BOARD, tell me that ANY B16 OR B18b civic will come even CLOSE to an H22 civic, PLEASE! Im talking straight drag and stock engines. Dont be a pussy, do the extra work.....i mean hell your doing a swap anyways, so what can touch 200hp, 160 tq, and dont say anything about auto x or the extra work.

wtf?!?!?! man i'll take a b series ANY FUCKIN DAY OVER AN H SERIES!!!

check it out, what motor has the fastest quick class car [a b series]... what motor currently holds the worlds fastest all motor cars [B series]... what were teh very first swaps ever done in civics [b series]... b series was the foundation of import racing... b series is still one of the best choices to make in a race car or a daily driven car...

yes true h series is in the worlds fastest import [stephen papadakis]... but who here on this board plans to do a vertical motor rather than the way honda intended most of their motors to sit [horizontally]... yeah stpeh has paved the way for all h series lovers but what did steph used to drive when he was racing over in sylmar when i first got in the scene? a b series powered 91 civic hatchback!!!

what did jeremy lookoffsky run back in sylmar? B SERIES

and last but not least what about when ed bergenholtz used to go to the races in orange county... what motor did he run in his hatchback [not his CRX, the CRX was roberts car back then]... a b series! thank you... b series is a damn good motor so dont go saying that an h series will always take out a b series or whatever it is your saying B)

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by T0mMuNi$m+Mar 2 2003, 09:02 AM-->

Originally posted by kylemarhx@Feb 24 2003, 10:16 PM
T0mMuNi$m

@Feb 24 2003, 10:02 PM
Just go through the extra work for an h series and no ls or b16 will come close.  

you're a moron.

Kyle...dont be a bitch.....ANYONE ON THIS BOARD, tell me that ANY B16 OR B18b civic will come even CLOSE to an H22 civic, PLEASE! Im talking straight drag and stock engines. Dont be a pussy, do the extra work.....i mean hell your doing a swap anyways, so what can touch 200hp, 160 tq, and dont say anything about auto x or the extra work.

Give me a break,this motor right here comes real close:
B18C Spec R
.
Displacement (cc): 1797
Power (bhp@rpm): 195@7800
Torque (ft/lbs@rpm): 130@7600
Compression Ratio: 10.6:1
Bore (mm): 81
Stroke (mm): 87.2
Cam Design: dohc
VTEC?: yes
OBD: 2
Year(s) Produced: 1997-2001
In the following car(s): Honda Integra Type R

Pump a few mods and not omly is it going to beat the H22,but it is going to last in a civic much longer.

 

[T0mMuNi$m]

Ok...answer me this. Drop a STOCK H22 into a 92-95 civic hatchback, and drop a B18 spec R into the same car, and tell me which one would win in a drag race.....completely stock. I never said anything about proffessional drag racing, because i know a b series will hold more hp than an h, but for street h is better.

 

[T0mMuNi$m]

Also, the price of an ITR motor surpasses the amount it would take to put in an H22, even with all the extra bullshit. I know most people still think B series is god, but H22 is a great street engine.

Ps. i know of a guy that has a 9 second turbo H22 civic, and is his daily driver. Has a lot of mods, but i thought that was very nice.

 

[SleEPeR_CRX]

Guys, #1 u are so far from the post its not even funny.
#2 he asked if a b18a will beat a b16a from 0-60, and with same mods/driver it will. a b18a is a more Drivable choice, if ur not racing, and just driving around, it makes power in the usable limit, if ur only gonig to the track the B16a eats a b18a like its cake, but from 0-40 ( like on the street) the b18a will walk on the b16a. My b18a with i/H/E and flywhee ( 90 CRX full interior), walks over a 93 b16 Hatch, any b16a teg ( they are lame) a ZC 1991 Civic, D16z6's civic's are cake and ive beaten 1 GSR integra. these are all on the street, up to roughly 50mph ( 88km's) im sure i woulda lost to the GSR and B16 in the long run, but the fact is in the short run a properly driven b18a is a cheap way to compete with any b16 civic/crx.