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D-series or B-series

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by Duffler 98EJ8, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. Duffler 98EJ8

    Duffler 98EJ8 New Member

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    hey guys,

    My parents bought me a 98 civic coupe ex a couple months ago and already the engine ceased up and the dealership wont do anything because its a used car and their warrenty ended a month ago. So it left me and my parents a couple options,

    1) They get a mechanic they know very well to put the SAME engine (d16y8) in.
    2) Let me swap a b16a2 in it and swap the cluster to an Si cluster. (What i am trying to convince them to let me do)
    3)Scrap the car or trade it for money or somethin. (Which i will be pissed off because they bought it for me!)

    So basically, the guy who would put another d16 in my civic has known my mom for twenty years, and he tells her that a b-series engine swap in my car would be horrible, and i would run into problems, and pretty much end up with a money pit. So i am trying to convince my mom that a b16 motor would work completely fine.


    But my main reason for posting is to ask, Is it worth it to build up a d16y8 when i have a possibility to talk my mom into a b16 swap?
    And if i went with a d16, what would i need to change so that the block dosent det. or knock or something? thanks for your help.
     
  2. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    Ah, yet another d16y bites the dust due to the shitty oil pump. whodathunkit?

    If you do a stock replacement, you need to address the oiling issue or you'll have the same problem down the road.
     
  3. USDM CRX DX-R

    USDM CRX DX-R New Member

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    Well, there is certainly nothing wrong with a B16A swap. PLENTY of people have done it. So it is a road well traveled. There really are no unpleasant surprises with this swap, and if the motor, transmission, and workmanship are good, it will be every bit as reliable as a stock motor. Maybe even more so, since the heavier duty nature of a B-series powertrain will probably stand up better to the pounding you are likely to subject it to. Whatever this guy says, it will NOT be a money pit, although it will certainly cost more to do the swap than a stock engine replacement.

    However, in matters like this, it matters little what I (or anyone here) have to say. It sounds like your mom knows someone who she wants and trusts to do the job, and that person says a B-series swap is a bad idea. MANY mechanics are rather conventional in nature, and feel like doing anything that is not exactly factory OEM is going to cause trouble. Maybe some of them feel this way after they have seen or done other, MUCH more difficult engine swaps in other cars. In any case, this is the wall you are up against. You must convince your mom that her mechanic friend (whose word she probably takes WAY over yours in this matter) is wrong about the swap. You must also try to convince her that it is a good idea for her to spend LOTS more money on a B16A swap. And I just don't think you can do either of these things. So unless you have the cash to do a B16A swap yourself or have someone else do it, a stock engine replacement is probably in your future.
     
  4. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    First things first, get a job and quit relying on your parents.
     
  5. ckiel

    ckiel New Member

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    X2
     
  6. c97x

    c97x sorry boss, its turbo

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    another good civic will most likely be piled into a (insert non movable object here) if he gets the b swap done. sound like your 16 or 17 what do you need the b series for?
     
  7. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    See that? 1 post. People join this site just to agree with me.
     
  8. Matts96HB

    Matts96HB . Moderator VIP

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    Its official.

    Klyph is god.
     
  9. Duffler 98EJ8

    Duffler 98EJ8 New Member

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    Im working two jobs right now paying for insurance and saving money towards the swap since im probably goin half with my mom on this. She IS willing to pay for some because she needs me to have a car, i got school/work.etc to do and im using my brothers car for all this since hes home for the rest of the semester. Ive been given her my paychecks for a past month, since i got another job, i can live off one, and give one to her

    I am 16, so i guess theres no gettin past that "oh hes just a F&F fanboy" kinda thing, but i just wanted to step in this direction because i always wanted a honda civic si regardless about what anybody said about owning a civic and "tuning" or "ricing it out". I got a freakin turbo for christmas a couple years ago because my dad thought one day i would put it on a car. I seriously doubt its in working condition because from what i understand he bought it from some dude at a yard sale for $50, although i found it cool anyways, it was the thought of my dad encouraging me to use forced induction on my car when i grew up.

    So i thought about it, and i wanted get it looked at if i still have it, see if its actually good for something. But moreso, i want a b-series engine because i want to turbocharge a civic in a daily driveable, reliable manner. If i get a b16a2, its essencialy(sp?) owning a 99-00 civic si in a 98 civic shell. and now that the option is there, i want to take it instead of having to use a d-series engine.

    Found a pic of it. anybody think its usable just by looking at it?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  10. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    One thing to consider here is that a B16 swap is probably going to be quite a bit more expensive than just dropping another D16 in. If you're going to go the B route, you need an entire B-Series powertrain (engine, transmission, and ECU). A B16 will not bolt up to the transmission that's currently in your car, plus you'll have to find an appropriate ECU to make the swap work properly.

    If you just buy another D16 on the other hand, all the mechanic will have to do is pull the old one, drop it in, bolt it up, and you're done.

    Honestly, if you're interested in boosting, then I'd say just stick with the D16. If you want to reliably boost a Honda, it's gonna cost you anywhere from $1,000 (that's assembling a junkyard kit yourself) to $3,000 (that's with a brand name complete turbo kit). With that being the case, I think you should go with the cheaper motor motor solution, so then you can put your money towards quality turbo parts.

    A complete B16 swap (this is including price of the motor, tranny, ecu, and installation by a shop) could end up being around 4 or 5 grand. So imagine spending that, and then another 2 or 3 grand for a turbo setup, and then maybe suspension and wheels as well, and you're heading towards 10k spent!

    You can make quite a bit more power with a well-tuned D16 turbo then you can with a stock B16 swap, so that's the route I'd go if I were you.
     
  11. ckiel

    ckiel New Member

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    I can agree because I am 19 years old, work 44+ hours a week, go to college full time, own my home, am married and have a son. I do all of this and manage to buy my own things with no help and I see these KIDS whose parents give them everything... it just makes me sick. They need to grow up and realize that not everything in life is just handed to you!

    :search:
     
  12. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Hey Duffler man I'm in the same position as you haha I'm 16 workin doing it all on my own. Got a '93 4-door (saved up for 2 years for this car workin for it since i was 14) with a messed up D-series also, got $1300 saved so far and it's hard deciding...D-series vtec for ~$1000 shipped or B16a SIR-2 $2500 from Specializing in JDM-USDM Engines & Parts...hmotorsonline.com complete changeover with axels and everything.

    Check it out I've been reading articles and I'm pretty sure I could do the swap myself. Do yourself a favor and look around on sites like this for swap articles and educate yourself as much as you can before you make a choice. Only difference going from D2B is you have to use a different throttle cable (i believe), ecu, shift linkage, have to get engine AND B tranny, and you have to wire up Vtec, o2 sensors, knock, and another wire yourself. It's not really that complicated just look it up. But like they said, it depends on what your power goals are. Like eventually I plan on going with a B anyway so I'm just saving for that but a D-series with a turbo can be tuned up to 250 whp (from what i've gathered) without problems.

    Not sure about the D? Check out D-series.org . Lots of information. Search around before you ask questions, or you'll likely to get shit talk and told to search anyway. And like I said about the B swap, once you do some research you'll see it's not so hard but I haven't actually done it. But I'm going for it myself so all it should cost is the price of the complete changeover and not labor fees they'll be outrageous. Hope I helped rep me if I did :)
     
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  13. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    That turbo in the picture is a cheap Chinese knockoff. Buyer beware :thumbsdown:
     
  14. Duffler 98EJ8

    Duffler 98EJ8 New Member

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    It says garrett clearley on it, and it looks fairly big compared to a friends stock rex turbo. i though garrett was a trusted company for F/I
     
  15. c97x

    c97x sorry boss, its turbo

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    if your boosting do what brutalb said and use the d series, that way when you blow it, it doesnt cost to much replace. turbo d<b16 swap
     
  16. daveholiday

    daveholiday Do work

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    also, if you plan on boosting it, take into consideration that if you get a stock y8 replacement, and boost it, with the upped lower end and a good tune you'll spend a little more than you would on a complete b swap. BUT, if you think about it, not only is the mechanic gonna be happy because of the d series, as with your mom because the mechanic is happy, but when it's all said and done you're gonna at the very least walk on b16's for the same price. So take that into consideration. brutal is right when he says that b's can get very expensive very quick, I myself was going to save for a b16 but when I realized what kind of power even N/A d's can make for relatively cheap (thanks blanco,) I stayed with my d. food for thought.

    EDIT: and another thing, since your working 2 jobs and paying your very own insurance (much like the rest of us) while I assume going to highschool still, after working so hard and taking all that saved up money, the last thing you want is to take your newly aquired b-swapped civic to the local drag-strip and get eaten alive by a little 91 hatch with a boosted d or something, and know that he probably spent less money on his engine than you did.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  17. Z6CRX

    Z6CRX übber ɐɾuıu etarip

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    x2 from that last post :ph34r:

    Duffler 98EJ8, learn a little more about cars before you start throwing money at it.
    Compare both costs of what engines will go in and if you will be doing it yourself. I would say, turbo the D though.
     
  18. alEXej8

    alEXej8 New Member

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    If you wanna save even more money, instead of boosting the D16, spend like 500 dollars and get a complete upper end kit: cam valves and valve springs, i think you can find the kit some where on here if you search. i think its good for like 20 extra Hp, and then you can rev the D to your hearts desire.
     
  19. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    No where in that picture or on that turbo does the word garret appear. It looks like a chinese copy of a garret turbo.
    I hope you mean WRX, cuz round her' rex means CRX and they don't have stock turbos.
    They are, but I don't think that's a real garret. I could be wrong.
     
  20. daveholiday

    daveholiday Do work

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    how could you miss it? it's plain as day!
    [​IMG]
     
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