HERE COMES THE PAIN! Lesnar talks MMA

[totalburnout]

I think the key word here is UFC. Wrestlers have dominated UFC but I believe Pride has the better strike fighters. Take the Gracies for example; excellent wrestling/take-downs techniques...But when you put them against a strike fighter they have trouble getting close.

Lesnar has an advantage over Hong Choi...from the wrestling aspect. From a stand-up fighting point of view, HC has the advantage with a longer reach.

These will be UFC sanctioned rules if they merge the two.

I.e., it takes half the ways of striking, while an opponent is down, away.

 

[K2e2vin]

We should have a pool going

 

[Cashizslick]

Cas,

You need to pull your head out of your ass.

Wrestlers tend to rule the ring along with Brazilian jui jitsu. He's not a WWF/WWE chump wrestler, you idiot. He was the NCAA National Collegiate Champ. Matt Hughes was a nationally recognized wrestler, but wasn't a national collegiate champ and he still dominates many. We just saw what Randy Couture did to Tim Silvia when he passed his strikes and took Silvia down. Obviously his greco-roman wrestling background at work there.

I'll put money on any wrestler versus a striker. You may think that you're great at striking and amazing but what happens when the person you're fighting can stomach the one hit, or two hits, or how ever many licks you give him and then he takes you down. Look at the size of Lesnar. Once you're down, you're not overpowering him so you're basically limited to submission attempts when he's raining severe blows down on you with far more power than a normal fighter.

Lesnar will take down pretty much anyone in his way.

I know hes the NAT champ.

But he has lots of bad wrestler habits that will hamper his chances in an MMA ring. One year of training isnt enough.

As i said earlier - he doesnt stand a chance against anybody w/experience in the UFC, let alone PRIDE.

Yes i know what happends when you fight people who dont drop w/one punch/kick . . . please, i have been doing this for 7 years now . . . i dont need a lecture and hope that comment was just a general point.


Lesner wont be raining heavy blows on anybody . . he doesnt know how to do that. He needs to train for another year, and start off in minor MMA leagues if he is serious about doing well.

 

[K2e2vin]

You don't try to take out people with one hit; you soften them first with combo's, etc. As I said before, if a striker can keep distance, the wrestler has no chance.

I've seen some fights where the strikers actually take advantage of the wrestler trying to get close; usually a knee or sidestepping and striking them from the side. Reminds me of when Bob Sapp tried to grapple after a fighter missed a punch but took a reverse elbow to the face and started crying. lol

 

[B16RacerN2NR]

Just so you know, you're not going to win this one even though you're right. Brock Lesner is the most badass man the world has ever seen and there isn't a human alive, dead, or yet to be born that can take him on. After all, he's had a whole year of martial arts training.

Wrestlers just don't know how much they don't know, which is why I gave up trying to explain it to them.

oh come on Blanco, not you too.
Let's use Tito Ortiz as an example. He was a wrestler who had 6 months of MMA training before coming into the UFC and he did really fucking good and on top of that, he came to the UFC when the UFC had rules more lenient(sp?) than the Pride rules.

Now I understand exactly what you and Cash are saying but you guys are talking like he (Lesnar) won't do good at all. Tito had 6 months and look where he is at, Lesnar has 1 year, with a very good camp, I think you guys are thinking too much when it comes to this, how about we just wait and see what happens

 

[micah]

well they are right that prior wrestling experience doesnt necessarily mean much in an mma situation. in a wrestling match you dont have to worry about alot of things that are resent in an mma match.
i personally think lesnar has enough raw physical talent to do well. hes been an athlete on many different levels for many many years and i believe he can and will adapt.
hes been training with militage who is renowned for striking and the gracies who are renowned for jui jitsu and he already has years of takedown and takedown defense experience.
IMO he has what it takes.
im not saying in the next 6 months he will be on fedors level, but 6 years? who knows.
i just cant see him, with his background and ability, not being successful in mma. there are however varying degrees of success and we will just have to wait and see.
one thing is for sure, he will be making a few people alot of money.

 

[totalburnout]

Cas,

Do we need to put money on this? Clearly, you'll be losing it. Anyone with a general understanding of conditioning and the skill level that Lesnar has understands his enormous potential and that he's going to be a monster.

He doesn't know how to rain blows down?

Are you a damned fool? In less than a year of training one can learn how to properly throw a punch. The power he will have behind his blows will be TREMENDOUS. Its indescribable how badly the punches will hurt and how much damage they will cause.

When he easily tosses people and slams them because of his huge strength advantage, do you think they're going to be able to handle that?

 

[micah]

just because you can throw a punch doesnt necessarily mean you have a good strike game.
look at bob sapp

 

[totalburnout]

Just so you know, you're not going to win this one even though you're right. Brock Lesner is the most badass man the world has ever seen and there isn't a human alive, dead, or yet to be born that can take him on. After all, he's had a whole year of martial arts training.

Wrestlers just don't know how much they don't know, which is why I gave up trying to explain it to them.

Blanco (aka most badass martial artist),

In a fight between a well conditioned athlete who tremendously overpowers your scrawny self and is ept at taking a person to the ground - more than likely by slamming (i.e, double leg take down), that my money is going to be on him.

I'll let time be the determining factor here, but it'll be glorious when you eat your words as per usual.

 

[totalburnout]

just because you can throw a punch doesnt necessarily mean you have a good strike game.
look at bob sapp

I'm not talking about striking, I'm talking about raining punches on a downed opponent.

Not the ability to stand and strike and box. The fact that Lesnar has the ability to put someone on their back through his strength and wrestling skills, the game becomes simple then - ground and pound. Rain as many punches down in the direction of his head as you can and knock him out.

Its plain and simple.

Never did I say that Lesnar would be able to box like Muhammad Ali or be the best striker in the world, simply that he will pack a powerful punch.

 

[micah]

kevin randleman became a champion in the same manner.
could take people down and due to his size and strength he could keep them there.

 

[totalburnout]

Well put.

I don't think Cash is saying that he won't do good and I know I'm not. What we're saying is that he isn't going to be some ferocious, dominating, unbeatable force the second he steps foot into the ring simply because he's a good wrestler. If you put a pure wrestler in the ring with a pure (stand up) martial artist of the same level, the martial artist is going to win. You'll get the same results with a boxer versus a martial artist. Of pure fighters, martial artists are unarguably more skilled. Now, if you start to add training in, you get a guy with one year of training versus guys with several years to decades of martial arts training you start getting the same results again. He's going to be brawler and I'll all but guarantee that his kicks will have horrible technique if he uses any at all. In Mixed Martial Arts, the martial artists will almost always win.

What you fail to understand because you believe that martial arts are the greatest is that you can't throw a kick when someone slam you on your back and is hovering over you. All Lesnar has to do is stand a few punches and get through his opponents striking and take him down. From there he can overpower almost all of his opponents attempts.

 

[totalburnout]

You don't try to take out people with one hit; you soften them first with combo's, etc. As I said before, if a striker can keep distance, the wrestler has no chance.

Whats the first thing you learn as a wrestler? How to close the distance. You don't take a shot from across the mat. He can easily get sandwiched against the fence or the ropes if Lesnar comes at him aggressively.

I've seen some fights where the strikers actually take advantage of the wrestler trying to get close; usually a knee or sidestepping and striking them from the side. Reminds me of when Bob Sapp tried to grapple after a fighter missed a punch but took a reverse elbow to the face and started crying. lol

This is true, but this is why I say as long as he can take a few punches or kicks he'll be fine and be able to pass their defense. A guy that large with that much muscle packed on his frame is probably going to be able to receive blows better than a smaller fighter.

 

[totalburnout]

When you're ready to fly out here, you can talk shit to my face. Until then, kindly eat a dick.

edit:
I'm not going to indulge your enormous ego with an argument.

Your delusions of grandeur are humorous at the least. We've seen pictures, we know you have to overcompensate for your lack of physique.

 

[micah]

Whats the first thing you learn as a wrestler? How to close the distance. You don't take a shot from across the mat. He can easily get sandwiched against the fence or the ropes if Lesnar comes at him aggressively.



This is true, but this is why I say as long as he can take a few punches or kicks he'll be fine and be able to pass their defense. A guy that large with that much muscle packed on his frame is probably going to be able to receive blows better than a smaller fighter.

he will also tire out much faster. theres way to many dif variables to say hes going to dominate or be dominated. it all depends on who hes fighting. and really until we see his first fight noone has any leverage to any of there arguements. at this point its pure speculation on both ends.

 

[Cashizslick]

Blanco (aka most badass martial artist),

In a fight between a well conditioned athlete who tremendously overpowers your scrawny self and is ept at taking a person to the ground - more than likely by slamming (i.e, double leg take down), that my money is going to be on him.

I'll let time be the determining factor here, but it'll be glorious when you eat your words as per usual.

Being well conditioned doesnt mean shit.

If your technique sux (since u have only been training for one year) then you will tire out quicker, do things sloppily, and not be able to best use your strength.

Also, to re-iterate the importance of experience, there are several things Lesner doesnt have going for him.

1.) MMA = very close to a real fight.
- Lesner has not been in "real fights" in all of his days as a wrestler. In a real fight, you heart races more, and you tire out quicker.

2.) One year of EXP ftl.
- Lesner has had punches/kicks thrown at him for one year :woo: Guys that have had that happening to them for the last 10 years have a HUGE advantage.

- Again, only a trained fighter knows this, but the more you see punches & kicks, the better you get at avoiding them. Also, with multiple years of exp, your mind has had more time to be trained to avoid & recognize the body motions a person makes when throwing punches/kicks.

- In multiple years of training, you can train with / fight MANY different people. Nothing helps you learn what a punch looks like, or a thai kick, than having 3904930 different people throw them at you.



Again - only people who actually train will under stand this. People think that just because this guy is a great wrestler automatically means he will be a great MMA fighter . . . not true at all.

- Its like saying that, since Bryan Boytano is such a great figure skater, he could just waltz into the NHL of the mid 1990's and clean house . . .


Its obvious none of you (cept blanco) actually train. Your pov that this guy will jump in the ring and whoop ass is just stupid.


Ill be willing to bet this guy loses his first match against anybody with talent.

 

[K2e2vin]

Southpark: "so what would Brian Boitano do if he were here today im sure he'd kickin ass or two cause thats what Brian Boitano'd do"

 

[Cashizslick]

Southpark: "so what would Brian Boitano do if he were here today im sure he'd kickin ass or two cause thats what Brian Boitano'd do"

You know . . there was a quick line on South Park in the news paper this morning . . guess thats where the analogy came from.

 

[totalburnout]

Yes...its obvious I don't train.

You're a moron.

 

[Cashizslick]

Yes...its obvious I don't train.

You're a moron.

Why? Because you have no fucking clue and I do?

Or because I sided w/your arch enemy on this?

Either way I'm right.