HERE COMES THE PAIN! Lesnar talks MMA

[Capt. Orygun]

Cas,

You need to pull your head out of your ass.

Wrestlers tend to rule the ring along with Brazilian jui jitsu. He's not a WWF/WWE chump wrestler, you idiot. He was the NCAA National Collegiate Champ. Matt Hughes was a nationally recognized wrestler, but wasn't a national collegiate champ and he still dominates many. We just saw what Randy Couture did to Tim Silvia when he passed his strikes and took Silvia down. Obviously his greco-roman wrestling background at work there.

I'll put money on any wrestler versus a striker. You may think that you're great at striking and amazing but what happens when the person you're fighting can stomach the one hit, or two hits, or how ever many licks you give him and then he takes you down. Look at the size of Lesnar. Once you're down, you're not overpowering him so you're basically limited to submission attempts when he's raining severe blows down on you with far more power than a normal fighter.

Lesnar will take down pretty much anyone in his way.

Yup it's well documented, Wrestlers always win

and Cas your comment about "You wouldn't understand"

I took Martial Arts for eight years, so don't think you know something I don't

Lesnar is a superior athlete, I swear you and Blanco and your "snatch pebble from hand>olympic caliber athlete ideals". Give it up, your wrong.

The day after this fight I'm posting the you tube, I'm not Latoya Jackson but I can guarantee you're gonna see Lesnar take down that big Korean and rain fucking elbows and fists TKO IMO, first or second round.

Go look up articles about Kurt Angle and Lesnar talking about the conditioning they did in WWE. Angle describes "ring work" as "you can only condition yourself for it by doing it". That's coming from someone who won a gold metal in the Olympics.

look at MMA, I hate to shine a light in your dark little cave but Matt Hughes wouldn't make it past day one in Olympic Greco roman tryouts. And Liddell wouldn't make the American kick boxing team

this is a sport, Lesnar is a better athlete. If your so sure he's no big deal call his agent and book a fight against him, this is your big chance guys take it

in reality you and Blanco with 2X4's couldn't kick Lesnar's ass

 

[Cashizslick]

Yup it's well documented, Wrestlers always win

and Cas your comment about "You wouldn't understand"

I took Martial Arts for eight years, so don't think you know something I don't

Lesnar is a superior athlete, I swear you and Blanco and your "snatch pebble from hand>olympic caliber athlete ideals". Give it up, your wrong.

Martial arts is a joke compared to MMA. I know a lot you dont.

You have no idea how many karate/taekowndo blackbealts i have pounded with thai kicks, overhand rights, left hooks, straight crosses, knees, etc. . .

Your 8 years of bullshit points sparring puts you in the same boat as our inexperienced friend Lesner with his collegiate wrestling, and fake ass WWF shit.

WWF/E crap doesnt help you - look at how much Ken Shamrock lost when he tried to make an MMA comeback.

All things aside, being an athlete isnt enough. You need extensive proper training and experience. Lesner should start out in a Minor MMA league first . . then go to the UFC.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

then fight Lesnar, fight any MMA fighter of any real ability, they're just a joke anyways

I didn't just do points sparring, I did ground fighting and even did submission wrestling for fun. my senior year ( a long time ago) I forced the tapout of a guy I was giving up 80lbs to and he was on the varsity wrestling team

but you suffer from Martial Arts Superiority Complex, your the guys who talk up your kickboxing and then get your ass kicked by drunk overwight slobs in bars.

Martial Arts will never make you a better fighter them someone else, it trains you to make you a better fighter then you were before. That being said people like Lesnar are superior by design, they have a higher ceiling. Lesnar is reported as being so strong that he rarely even uses his wrestling toolbox, he just overpowers them and then does what wants

 

[totalburnout]

Cas,

When you get a contract and aren't just some punk spewing about the greatness of MMA which is obviously just a coalition of multiple martial arts, striking, and wrestling techniques (not a far cry from wrestling or martial arts) then we'll talk.

Whoever is feeding you your bullshit about why your MMA is so much better is full of shit him or her self and thats why they're not making money winning all the fights.

Lesnar is a superior athlete, plain and simple. It has everything to do with conditioning, strength, and technique. Lesnar has all of those.

As I said, I don't normally gamble on these things. I'm so confident I'll match whatever wager you want to put against Lesnar. I'm also confident that you'd get punked in any fight with a real national collegiate champ from virtually any physical sport.

 

[totalburnout]

"but you suffer from Martial Arts Superiority Complex"

For once, Cam has hit the nail directly on the head. Clearly you were one of those kids growing up that thought your art form made you untouchable. You know the kids that toted on and on about how much everything was about technique and then when it came to actual fighting they couldn't do anything when I closed the distance and was slamming them or choking them out.

They're the guys, like Cam said, that wide up sitting on their soapbox and getting tooled by so overweight chump that swings for the fences and lands one on their button.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

+1

every martial artist think their style is the best, and ALL of them are wrong

 

[totalburnout]

+1

every martial artist think their style is the best, and ALL of them are wrong

Everyone has these delusions of grandeur from Bruce Lee that if you go at a martial artist that they'll be able to "snap your leg in one kick" or "break your arm with one strike", yet how many times do we see that happening in MMA?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

 

[K2e2vin]

Most of the people in MMA aren't really those big kung fu guys because most of them are taught to use it only for defense; so you'll probably never see the best martial arts guy in the ring. Bruce Lee stated that no style is best; IIRC he studied many different forms of fighting including boxing, wrestling, fencing, etc. That shows that he knew that martial arts isn't the best.

IMO, the best fighter is the most well rounded fighter. Will I think Brock Lesnar be dominant? Nope, not without experience. There are many big guys in Pride/K-1 that get knocked out by smaller guys using just speed to their advantage. It is WAY too early to assume that Brock has what it takes because this is the first time we're going to see him in this type of environment. Wrestling does work. but you have to get close. There are plenty of MMA guys that make distance with strikes and do it very efficiently. Whether or not Brock Lesnar can overcome this is what we have to find out; it's more than skill, techniques, etc. It still boils down to experience and "reflexes"/speed. Same with driving; you can practice all types of maneuvers, etc. but you won't get good without real seat time.

 

[K2e2vin]

Also, this thread is more of a "Brock Lesnar dominant fighter" type thing. Some of you guys are saying yes due to stats as a wrestler, and others saying no due to lack of experience and short training. Might as well make a poll because we're not going anywhere. Right now it's just a matter of opinion; Brock's record is 0-0-0.

 

[Cashizslick]

then fight Lesnar, fight any MMA fighter of any real ability, they're just a joke anyways

I have been in plenty of MMA fights - I stated in my first post that I train in MMA. STFU and read.

 

[Cashizslick]

"but you suffer from Martial Arts Superiority Complex"

Clearly you were one of those kids growing up that thought your art form made you untouchable. .

Lol i didnt start MMA untill I was 16. I took karate before that when i was little.

Never grew up thinking anything .

 

[Cashizslick]

Also, this thread is more of a "Brock Lesnar dominant fighter" type thing. Some of you guys are saying yes due to stats as a wrestler, and others saying no due to lack of experience and short training. Might as well make a poll because we're not going anywhere. Right now it's just a matter of opinion; Brock's record is 0-0-0.

I would say that my experienced opinion carries some weight to it.

Most people in this topic siding w/Lesner either took Karate when they were 5yrs old, or think WWF is real.

 

[totalburnout]

Right, so you've just grown up, recently, to be so ignorant. Kudos.

Put up or shut up. Money on the fight.

...and because you train doesn't mean that you're good. You're giving advice about a guy that would clearly crush you and 9 out of 10 other people without batting an eye. Thats the point.

 

[Cashizslick]

...and because you train doesn't mean that you're good. You're giving advice about a guy that would clearly crush you and 9 out of 10 other people without batting an eye. Thats the point.

Actually, i am very good and have a lot of experience - not that you would know having never met me. Would Lesner kick my ass? Of course he would - he's got over 100lbs on me lol.

Now, if he was my weight, i can tell you right now that I would kick his ass so quickly its not even funny. I pounded the kid who went #1 in western Massachusetts high school wrestling (and was the captain of the team at my college) 2 days before his first MMA fight.

When the weight of the 2 fighters is the same, experience and skill are what makes the difference here, not raw athleticism.

 

[totalburnout]

Okay, so you pounded a 'western mass. #1 wrestler' before his first MMA fight.

Something tells me he didn't have the physique or athleticism that Lesnar has, was a high school wrestler and wasn't even a national champion in high school <which is a far easier task than being a national collegiate champ>, and has no where near the skills of a national collegiate champ but you're going to draw the conclusion that this what 16-18yr old who had never fought before and didn't have near the wrestling background that Lesnar had is anything comparable to Lesnar.

Once again, I'll put money on pound for pound - myself handing it to anyone who would like to try.

I work with a kid who's attitude is much like yours. He's an amateur MMA fighter and his uncle trains him. He thinks he's untouchable because he's training and has one some fights against other scrubs. Funny when I can hand his ass to him, yet he's knocked everyone that he's fought out.

Conditioning, athleticism, basic skills > lesser conditioned athlete with greater skills when the fight goes more than a round. Its just that simple. Joyce Gracie and the other greats can no longer hang for a reason, its not because their skills are lesser now than they were in the past, its because of the degenerative nature of the human body when it ages, which makes them unable to compete at the same level.

As I said about the Couture fight when everyone was picking Silvia, if Couture came into the ring well conditioned and conditioned like that of a 30yr old man, then he'd man handle Silvia. ...in terms of striking Silvia is no slouch, but he's not conditioned to hang with a real athlete.

His fights are fought on the hope of a good strike will down his opponent not that he has the greatest ability. This isn't a sound way to fight and this is the way that Lesnar will force opponents to fight him.

As I keep saying, put up or shut up. I'm a soon to be broke college student and will wager whatever amount you'd like. An extra $200 in my pocket will be helpful and glorious when some dingbat totes about how their methods are superior to those of a true national collegiate/olympic class athlete.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

and Liddell would still kick Bruce Lee's ass in the Octagon

I held very strong beliefs about the power of traditional styles, right about until Matt Hughes TKO'ed Gracie in the first round

Evolution is a bitch

 

[Cashizslick]

As I keep saying, put up or shut up. I'm a soon to be broke college student and will wager whatever amount you'd like. An extra $200 in my pocket will be helpful and glorious when some dingbat totes about how their methods are superior to those of a true national collegiate/olympic class athlete.

Again, Brian Boytano = world class figure skater . . but can he play ice hockey? I doubt it.

Same deal with Lesner.

BTW you are in NJ right? I will probably end up watching the first fight of his with a bunch of people from the MMA school I am currently at. You are more than welcome to join us.

 

[Cashizslick]

and Liddell would still kick Bruce Lee's ass in the Octagon

I held very strong beliefs about the power of traditional styles, right about until Matt Hughes TKO'ed Gracie in the first round

Evolution is a bitch

Thats exactly why Shamrock never beat Ortiz. . . .he never changed with the sport.

 

[K2e2vin]

Cash, this topic is fucking hillarious.



You uh...might want to actually study Jeet Kune Do before making that statement. Jeet Kune Do is HIGHLY based in Wing Chun Kung Fu...a um, traditional martial art.

I know that; but if you ever seen his documentary he talks about it; adapting to different situations means using different techniques.

"Be water my friend"

 

[Capt. Orygun]

NSFW for violence

YouTube - Kick Boxing Vs. MMA

well they're the same size, and obviously the kick boxer has much better training

but somehow the result just doesn't add up the way you want it too