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my first honda (89 hatch)

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> ED-EF / DA' started by paulsen, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    hi i have a 89 hatch si and im considering a swap, im thinkind about a b series, i am really new to honda, so bear with me i have been doing a little reading and i dont know which way to go, im goin for the broke mans swap. i have a few questions, how long does a swap usually take for someone with reasonable mechanic skills and commen sense? what swaps will smog and ref in cali? can i build a b18b1 or is b18b2 the way to go and can i add vtec to one of these motors? exodus had some good information in his post but is it applicable to a hatch? waht is the cheapest most efficient ways to go about getting all the stuff i need for a swap: as in do i have to peice it together hit up the local picknpull on the weekends or try and get a parts car from a salvage auction? any help is greatly appretiated
     
  2. Slow&Delirious

    Slow&Delirious isn't fast or furious

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    i assume you are going from a D to a B?
    you will need, Engine, tranny, axels, ect. basicly the works

    you can get it one peice at a time or go to a yard & get a donor car & get it all at once
     
  3. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    what year and make can i pull parts from to make a b18b1 from? i want to go 0bd0, and would like to do a vtec head to top it off if thats is even possible.
     
  4. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    this is the most helpfull info ive found yet but i would like a second opinion or maybe a third, does this sound about right.

    Okay, there was some correct information in here, but for the most part, I'd rather just list all of the information I can think of pertaining to this topic that I know is true to perhaps help in clarifying some stuff. I know some or all may be redundant, but it'll at least be organized.

    - 1992 model year starts wiring\computer language called "OBD1" or On-Board-Diagnostics 1, the first generation. Anything before that is Pre-OBD, or OBD0. OBD1's last year was the model year 1995. 1996-1997 was OBD2a, with 98+ as OBD2b. B is worthless, A is convertible.
    - Your 89 CRX Si is MPFI (Multi-Point-Fuel-Injection), OBD0. The engine swap you have is OBD1 MPFI. There is a difference in the wiring between them. The difference is the industry recognized "language" or preset wire routing and plug color\type selection for the harness and connectors.
    - In order to use this engine, your best bet is using the 89 CRX Si engine harness. In doing so, you may run your CRX injectors, which will match your injector resistor box. Running the OBD1 injectors will change their type to saturated, not peak-and-hold like the Si's, and will not require the use of the injector resistor box. Eliminating the resistor box from the circuitry is as simple as connecting the wires on either side of it with those that correspond on the opposite side. You would also need the OBD1 injector plugs on your harness. I recommend running the CRX Si injectors, the stock resistor box, and the CRX Si engine harness for this engine. The flow rate between the B18A1 OBD1 injectors and the D16A6 OBD0 injectors remains consistent. It's the impedance, the type (saturated or p-n-h) and the plugs\language they speak that differs. Staying true to the chassis may help ensure ease of the swap, less headaches, more simple trouble-shooting, etc.. It's in your best interest.
    - You need to choose which OBD you'd like to run. Zero, or One. Your scenario may be preferable to running the stock Si ECU, which in my experience provides more aggressive results stock for stock with a B18A1, (torque steering like crazy through third and squealing versus a turd-burglar on the PR4 ECU). It will also match your chassis wiring, where as the OBD1 B18A1 ECU will have different connectors, requiring a sometimes costly OBD0-OBD1 ECU Jumper harness, which would be entirely unnecessary for your particular build. If you do not wish to run the stock CRX ECU and want to be sure you have the correct computer, try an OBD0 PR4 LS Ecu, from 90 to 91 only. Also, an OBD1 dizzy coming stock on your motor will require either a jumper harness to convert down to OBD0 if you choose to run that (or you can depin the OBD1 plugs and use OBD0 plugs, the wires are the same color and all, just different plastic holding them), or if you wish, you may use a 90-91 B18A1 distributor with your A6 CRX harness. Depinning is my favorite solution.
    - You may also consider running the radiator and fan from the Integra, it's dual core from the factory whereas the CRX is single, and the inlet and outlet pipes correctly match those on the engine, so there is no need for sloppy shims or ghetto rigging to avoid coolant leaks, and you get a factory upgrade on cooling.
    - Use 88-89 Integra axles ONLY. EVERYONE on the internet will tell you to run the 90-91 Integra axles which WILL allow the car to run and drive, but will cause future problems with axle binding\premature wear, increased driveline stress\friction\losses, etc... The Civic\CRX 88-91 in America is an ED chassis vehicle, NOT NOT NOT an EF, they were EFs in JAPAN and other countries. They also had optional B-Series motors not just D. In America, the only if not one of the only EF chassis is the 1G Integra (I think only the 88-89, generally, you wouldn't almost ever want 86-87 parts for reference). The outside of the axles fits the CRX splines (DX and Si!), just like the 90-91 LS axles, the insides of the axles that plug into the D-SERIES TRANS of the 88-89 Integra (D16A1, NOT B-series) also happen to plug up into the B-Series intermediate shaft and transmission, just like the 90-91 LS axles do. But the Integra of 90+ housed a B-series like EF's in Japan. So factory, they have a longer axles, by roughly an inch or so of total front chassis\suspension width. So, going down in that width to a ED chassis CRX, which needs the strut tower wall to be banged out for alternator clearance since it's chassis is about 1 inch more narrow, the axles manage to fit, but because they are for a DA chassis integra, the knuckles of the CRX squeeze the CV joints together, reducing the gap in the bearings to the housing. This causes binding under conditions like hard turns. This is why companies who sell remanufactured axles, like Auto-Zone, now sell only brand new axles, because they are cheaper than fixing the THOUSANDS of returned axles every MONTH all across the country from Honda people who choose the wrong swap axles. The 88-89 Integra may be a legit EF chassis like the JDM Civic\CRXs, but it has a D-Series motor factory, not a B, because it's american, which causes the overall chassis\suspension width to match the CRX, making the 88-89 axles the actual CORRECT length to use on a B-Series swapped EF. The only other note of axle mention would be to pry out the dust-rings on the inner side of your knuckles, it's encircles the area where your axles poke through the back of the knuckles, needle nose pliers work great, but WEAR GLOVES. On some cars, this process is a serious knuckle buster!
    - As far as the emissions\vacuum nonsense is considered, I'm posting my own thread with questions about my recent B18A swap into my CRX, cause I'm having galloping idle issues and I removed the entire charcoal canister setup, and the purge valves from the firewall and plugged every non-essential vacuum nipple on the manifold. I also, don't have the dash pot on the throttle body, or the bracket of hard vacuum lines on the back of the manifold. The PCV breather box isn't hooked to a PCV valve, the tube just runs straight from one side to the other like it's hardwired. The PCV breather nipple on the valve cover has only a dump tube that goes behind the steering rack. The fuel vapor nipple on the firewall that hooks to the charcoal canister vents to atmosphere. My ECU (PR4 OBD0) reads code 43 and the check engine. Sometimes the CEL isn't on, but the code is still flashing. It's a fuel delivery code of some type, and when it's not galloping at idle, it's idling at 1250, gallops from 1-1500ish under certain coditions, but not always. When I first swapped the motor in, it had no codes and idled at like 5-800 when warm. Now it has the code and idles improperly. Usually, ECU's LEARN their situation after being disconnected from power for a while. I think my learned that it's situation is not proper, which is why it stopped running right without any changes under the hood or to the car at all.
     
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  5. salvadorrivas13

    salvadorrivas13 New Member

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    DANG that's too much to read i get lost in the middle Heehhehehe........^_^
     
  6. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    ok in a nut shell are these the best parts for a possible swap for my 89 si hatch: 89-91 ls motor and tranny, stock si ecu and injectors, and 88 or 89 axles, does this seem correct and i cant find a motor or tranny for cheap anywhere out there, anybody have suggestions
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  7. George777

    George777 ^^ Likes Bewbies

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    If you are looking for a B18B, then it will have to be from a 94+ Integra. 90-93 Integras have the B18A. The A's are OBD0
     
  8. pappaj

    pappaj New Member

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    I just put a b18a in my 89 crx si this week. I am just finishing everything up right now, a few little parts on order. I would have to say this is a fairly easy swap just because I did it. It is my first swap, there was a couple speed bumps and a bit of cursing. I think this swap could be done over a weekend if you have everything you need and you don't have a nagging wife and kid to take care of. I think it has taken about 15 hrs in total, probably another 3 or so. I imagine there will be some bugs to work out though. I have seen the b18a's with tranny for sale for under 500 bucks around here. I don't know of your resources but i'm sure you can find something reasonable. Good Luck anyways
     
  9. Aleaf.CRX

    Aleaf.CRX Hates Cunts!

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    ^^^
    How much do you know about cars?
     
  10. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    hey pappaj what did you have to order so i can get a jump ont that? did you go b18a or b
     
  11. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    i know enough to get around and have a little bit of commen sence,
     
  12. BoostedHatch

    BoostedHatch get tha fuck out!

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    paulsen i know that if you take a b18a1 block and put a b16a head (jdm or not ur choice) it will be called a ls/vtech you will need a ecu tranny axels the proper wiring harness etc.;)
     
  13. efhondakid

    efhondakid My name is Byron. VIP

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    The As are split between OBD0 and OBDI. The 90-91 are OBD0, and the 92-93 are OBDI. Both of the B18As use a PR4 ECU, so you have to make sure you get the right OBD ECU for the right OBD motor.
     
  14. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    hey boosted hatch thats waht im talking about, thats what im looking to do, what ecu would i have to get for that motor and is it ok to use a stock ls tranny, and what wiring harness
     
  15. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    i think i want to go obd0 but can anyone tell me the pros and cons?
     
  16. BoostedHatch

    BoostedHatch get tha fuck out!

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    yea you can use the ls tranny i prefer the gsr( ur choice once again depends how much you want to spend.) and as far as the wiring harness go to rywire.com im shur they will have something for you there.
     
  17. efhondakid

    efhondakid My name is Byron. VIP

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    IMO OBD0 is the easiest to diagnose problems, you dont need a scan tool/jump the ECU, you read the flashing lights. The only bad thing is the tuning software for OBD0 isnt that good. So if your going to leave your motor stock (other than little bolt on stuff such as I/H/E) I would stay OBD0.
    B16- shortest gears-best acceleration at the cost of MPG, can be found fairly easy if you know where to look.
    GS-R- right between the two, good accel, good MPG, but one of the hardest to find in cable form.
    LS- longest gears-slower acceleration than the B16 and GS-R, but better MPG, very easy to find.
     
  18. George777

    George777 ^^ Likes Bewbies

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    I would look into this before you made a decision on a motor. It would really suck to put your time, effort, and money into this project and find out it's not gunna work out where you are...
     
  19. Creator

    Creator Honda's since 98

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    >LS-VTEC kit Lightning Motorsports - Golden Eagle
    >how to LS-VTEC How to build a "RELIABLE" lsvtec/b20vtec guide. - B20Vtec.Com...... B Series and Beyond
    >another how to LS-VTEC LS/VTEC Build up Guide - Honda, Acura Tech Website, tutorials, tuning and HOW-TO's. Drag racing, street racing, road racing - C-speedracing.com
    Only thing the previous two links missed is a GSR/type R water pump (same part)

    >ECU/wiring pieces for LS-VTEC DIY Tuning Resource Center for Hondata, eCtune, Neptune, Crome, TurboEdit, Uberdata (scroll past "hacked" crap)
    >another ECU/wiring pieces for LS-VTEC Rywire - Online Store

    There's your LS-VTEC problems solved....swap is a whole different story
     
  20. paulsen

    paulsen sponge of knowlege

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    is a vtec head compatable with obd0, what would i have to change to get a vtec head onto a b18a1? is there a wiring issue?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
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