"Panda" motors

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by MXDesa+Sep 12 2003, 11:26 AM-->

Originally posted by NoJokE@Sep 11 2003, 06:19 PM
xyswany

@Sep 11 2003, 05:59 PM
  if you could also fill me in on wtf a "frankenstein" and a "mini me" is. sorry ima tard. ill go back to head start now.

A frankenstein is an LS/Vtec, CRvtec, mating a head to a block which it didnt come with and making it vtec. A mini me, correct me if im wrong, is putting a y8 head on a Z6 block, or somethign like that, i am not too sure on that one.

A mini me usually refers to taking a SOHC non-vtec engine and putting on a SOHC Vtec head. Or it could also refer to boosting a SOHC motor, something of that nature, usually its called a mini me when u built a SOHC motor.

No, "mini-me" is accepted as referring to a SOHC VTEC head swapped onto a non-VTEC SOHC D series engine. Turboing a D series engine is just called "turboing a D series engine", and building a D series engine is just called "building a D series engine".

 

[khrisb]

Originally posted by Calesta+Sep 12 2003, 12:21 PM-->

Originally posted by MXDesa@Sep 12 2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by NoJokE@Sep 11 2003, 06:19 PM
xyswany

@Sep 11 2003, 05:59 PM
  if you could also fill me in on wtf a "frankenstein" and a "mini me" is. sorry ima tard. ill go back to head start now.

A frankenstein is an LS/Vtec, CRvtec, mating a head to a block which it didnt come with and making it vtec. A mini me, correct me if im wrong, is putting a y8 head on a Z6 block, or somethign like that, i am not too sure on that one.

A mini me usually refers to taking a SOHC non-vtec engine and putting on a SOHC Vtec head. Or it could also refer to boosting a SOHC motor, something of that nature, usually its called a mini me when u built a SOHC motor.

No, "mini-me" is accepted as referring to a SOHC VTEC head swapped onto a non-VTEC SOHC D series engine. Turboing a D series engine is just called "turboing a D series engine", and building a D series engine is just called "building a D series engine".

 

[posol]

you can't mini me a vtec motor. lol

 

[SleEPeR_CRX]

QUOTE (Calesta @ Sep 12 2003, 12:21 PM)
QUOTE (MXDesa @ Sep 12 2003, 11:26 AM)
QUOTE (NoJokE @ Sep 11 2003, 06:19 PM)
QUOTE (xyswany @ Sep 11 2003, 05:59 PM)
if you could also fill me in on wtf a "frankenstein" and a "mini me" is. sorry ima tard. ill go back to head start now.


A frankenstein is an LS/Vtec, CRvtec, mating a head to a block which it didnt come with and making it vtec. A mini me, correct me if im wrong, is putting a y8 head on a Z6 block, or somethign like that, i am not too sure on that one.


A mini me usually refers to taking a SOHC non-vtec engine and putting on a SOHC Vtec head. Or it could also refer to boosting a SOHC motor, something of that nature, usually its called a mini me when u built a SOHC motor.


No, "mini-me" is accepted as referring to a SOHC VTEC head swapped onto a non-VTEC SOHC D series engine. Turboing a D series engine is just called "turboing a D series engine", and building a D series engine is just called "building a D series engine".

and good call MXDesa, thanks for getting that before me or 1 of the admins got a handle of it and owned the kid

 

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by SleEPeR_CRX@Sep 12 2003, 02:05 PM
and good call MXDesa, thanks for getting that before me or 1 of the admins got a handle of it and owned the kid

Why would an admin "own" someone for asking a question? We would much rather "own" someone who's constantly posting up false information.

 

[sohcslammer]

Originally posted by Calesta+Sep 12 2003, 03:37 PM-->

SleEPeR_CRX

@Sep 12 2003, 02:05 PM
and good call MXDesa, thanks for getting that before me or 1 of the admins got a handle of it and owned the kid

Why would an admin "own" someone for asking a question? We would much rather "own" someone who's constantly posting up false information.

So the reason LS/VTEC's suck is...........

Thanx for the info Cal... I decided to boost a D series so I can be original like everybody else. What do you think about just buying low comp. pistons from like JE or something? I was trying to pull this off without pulling the block. Notching the block might be a little dificult to do with the motor still in the car. Lets go over the goals I have and we'll see what can be done...

#1 - Don't want to spend TOO much money
#2 - Don't want it to be unreliable
#3 - I want at LEAST 200 whp
#4 - I really don't want to swap motors (see # 1)
#5 - The car will most likely see 80% street/15%-20% auto-x/5%-0% drag

Now for the setup -
I have hooked up with a shop here in SD called autotech motorsports. The owner is super cool and he is letting me use his shop as I please. We are discussing sponsorship and I know that labor will not be a big issue. The shop also has 3 RX7 shop cars that are just sitting around in parts. I am hoping to get a turbo from one of those. t3/t4 hopefully. (They are all super modified, i.e. - 3-4 rotor engines with twin t3/t4s on them.... 570 whp on the 3 rotor, 4 rotor yet to be dynoed :unsure: ) So, my hopes are that I will get the turbo for free, be able to fabricate the turbo piping and just have to pay for the intercooler, bov, wastegate, etc....

Motor -
What do I NEED to do to the D series to get at least 200 reliable whp out of it? Sleeves? Blockguard? Low comp pistons obviously. Should I fux with the head? Run a turbo cam? I don't really know shit about F.I. and would appreciate all the imput. Thanx.

Edit: Page 2 for all of eternity

 

[cxjon]

i have been tring to get a hold of turbo panda but he no responds

 

[phunky.buddha]

If you want a reliable 200whp, realistically... just bolt on a good aftermarket turbo kit and tune. That's all. I've seen a TON of examples of guys making 200-220whp with all stock internals on Greddy and Apex'i kits, even after driving on them for 25k miles or more. It's all in the tuning. You could run TurboPanda's setup for some extra insurance, but then you have to deal with tearing apart the block, notching, honing, and installing the new pistons/rods. Something always comes up when you're playing inside your engine, so it really is best to leave it alone if you don't want to spend extra cash or if you're not 100% sure about what you're doing. You can't properly install new pistons without taking your block out anyway... you usually want to have the block deck and head resurfaced at a machine shop, get the proper sleeve hone for your new rings done at a machine shop, and have the bore sized to your new pistons as well. Swapping the pistons in your garage can lead to problems if you don't have all the clearances just right. It will work, but you never know just how well if you don't do it all the "right way".

So.... all you NEED to do is bolt on a good turbo kit and tune the car well.

 

[Tonyd0821]

Originally posted by Calesta@Sep 16 2003, 02:54 PM
If you want a reliable 200whp, realistically... just bolt on a good aftermarket turbo kit and tune. That's all. I've seen a TON of examples of guys making 200-220whp with all stock internals on Greddy and Apex'i kits, even after driving on them for 25k miles or more. It's all in the tuning. You could run TurboPanda's setup for some extra insurance, but then you have to deal with tearing apart the block, notching, honing, and installing the new pistons/rods. Something always comes up when you're playing inside your engine, so it really is best to leave it alone if you don't want to spend extra cash or if you're not 100% sure about what you're doing. You can't properly install new pistons without taking your block out anyway... you usually want to have the block deck and head resurfaced at a machine shop, get the proper sleeve hone for your new rings done at a machine shop, and have the bore sized to your new pistons as well. Swapping the pistons in your garage can lead to problems if you don't have all the clearances just right. It will work, but you never know just how well if you don't do it all the "right way".

So.... all you NEED to do is bolt on a good turbo kit and tune the car well.

ya i agree with Cal.

Why go through all the hassle and aggravation of tearing your motor out and what not JUST to install pistons?

Eventually you will want to do other internal strengthening mods to your engine.

why not do it all at once? save time and money.

just get the edlebrock kit, or if u dont wanna spend that much,
get the greddy 15g (19g for obd2) kit, intercool it, turn up the boost to 10psi either on the blue box or on a fmu (hondata is out of ur budget?)
and i can almost guarantee you will be at or over or just shy of 200whp.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Just get a good kit and tune it. Hondata isn't all that much anymore, especially after the S200 came out. My setup was much less than $500, and I got every option except for boost and the ROM editor software.

 

[DarkHand]

Most hondaswap people wouldn't really care, but there's another build.. the 'Hydra'. D16 head mated to an EW block. Something the people over at redpepperracing.com have been working on.

 

[sohcslammer]

Originally posted by Tonyd0821+Sep 16 2003, 02:58 PM-->

Calesta

@Sep 16 2003, 02:54 PM
If you want a reliable 200whp, realistically... just bolt on a good aftermarket turbo kit and tune.  That's all.  I've seen a TON of examples of guys making 200-220whp with all stock internals on Greddy and Apex'i kits, even after driving on them for 25k miles or more.  It's all in the tuning.  You could run TurboPanda's setup for some extra insurance,  but then you have to deal with tearing apart the block, notching, honing, and installing the new pistons/rods.  Something always comes up when you're playing inside your engine, so it really is best to leave it alone if you don't want to spend extra cash or if you're not 100% sure about what you're doing.  You can't properly install new pistons without taking your block out anyway... you usually want to have the block deck and head resurfaced at a machine shop, get the proper sleeve hone for your new rings done at a machine shop, and have the bore sized to your new pistons as well.  Swapping the pistons in your garage can lead to problems if you don't have all the clearances just right.  It will work, but you never know just how well if you don't do it all the "right way".

So.... all you NEED to do is bolt on a good turbo kit and tune the car well.

ya i agree with Cal.

Why go through all the hassle and aggravation of tearing your motor out and what not JUST to install pistons?

Eventually you will want to do other internal strengthening mods to your engine.

why not do it all at once? save time and money.

just get the edlebrock kit, or if u dont wanna spend that much,
get the greddy 15g (19g for obd2) kit, intercool it, turn up the boost to 10psi either on the blue box or on a fmu (hondata is out of ur budget?)
and i can almost guarantee you will be at or over or just shy of 200whp.

O.K. So, the D series can hold up to and maybe a little over 200 whp? Cool. And I know they are cheap to replace. Tony - will the 19g kit fit on an EG? What's different? Do those kits come with intercoolers? I was looking at the edelbrock kit, it looks nice and puts down 170 to the wheel. But it's expensive and I'm still 30 HP away. Hondata is what I plan on using, maybe just not right away. So, I guess boosting 1 bar on a D16 is out of the question. Oh, well. It was starting to look like a lot of trouble anyways.

Assuming I have an EX coupe (EG) what do I need to make @ 200 at the wheel? Greddy kit, intercooler, up the PSI, I/E, hondata and that's it?

Comming soon - ANOTHER turbo-charged civic. Yay. :sleep:

 

[sohcslammer]

Originally posted by DarkHand@Sep 16 2003, 03:30 PM
Most hondaswap people wouldn't really care, but there's another build.. the 'Hydra'. D16 head mated to an EW block. Something the people over at redpepperracing.com have been working on.

What's an EW block?????????

 

[DarkHand]

Originally posted by sohcslammer@Sep 16 2003, 03:32 PM
What's an EW block?????????

Block from 1st gen CRX's / 3rd gen Civics.

Write up here

Pictures here

 

[phunky.buddha]

I don't know what the stock boost level is on the Greddy kit, but two people on Civicland (when it was still good) made 220whp and 215whp running 12psi of boost. The kits were intercooled of course, and they had intake/exhaust too. One guy was running Hondata, and another was running the standard blue box. Both were on 96-00 EXs (D16Y8), but you can probably get similar results with your Z6.

Another guy in Dallas that we met up with during the Civicland meet was running high 13s with all stock internals under an Apex'i kit on his Y8. Dave in Miami making his 220whp on the Greddy kit ran a flat 14.0. That should give you some benchmarks.

As for building up the engine vs just boosting it stock, a lot of my friends in Houston like to just boost stock cheapo engines... if it only costs you a few hundred to get another block and replace your blown one, just do that instead of spending $600-800 beefing up the internals. Some of them even have extra blocks sitting in their garages ready to go just in case... blow an engine, spend one day of downtime to swap, then you're ready to go again.

If that scares you, don't worry- they only blow engines up when they do something really stupid.

 

[Tonyd0821]

Originally posted by Calesta@Sep 16 2003, 03:35 PM
I don't know what the stock boost level is on the Greddy kit,

5.5psi

 

[phunky.buddha]

Ah, thanks.

 

[sohcslammer]

Yeah, I figure @ $500 for a new motor > blowing a D series I spent hella $ on. (Yes I'm from CA)

Tony - you never answered my questions.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by sohcslammer@Sep 16 2003, 03:44 PM
Yeah, I figure @ $500 for a new motor > blowing a D series I spent hella $ on. (Yes I'm from CA)

Even less than that... most people will sell you a full Z6 changeover including the transmission for about $500, sometimes less. I'm sure you could pull a Z6 longblock for only a few hundred.