Celerity
Well-Known Member
First off, let me begin by saying that is another of those political posts. But, there is a difference here. I'm not going to even attempt to warrant who is right or wrong, But I'm going to bring to you a few of the things I've come to realise, and let you make your minds from there.
Secondly, There is a Vote. Read this, and decide how you would handle it.
Knowledge is power. And lots of you have done your own research into what is happening in the world today - as I have. Only, because I'm a bit of a cynic, my research has led me down dark corridors of despair and anxiety.
Somethings in today's world worry me to my core. I love cars. Always have. Now, I find that owning cars is too financially strenuous, and even if I could afford it by making lots of money, it certainly costs more than it should.
Two thoughts have occured to me during these times of doubt. One, is the cost of Fuel. I know that US has paid the least for fuel in all of the world, but that should not negate my opinions, nor the opinions of others to keep the cost of driving down. By saying that the US "Should get a grip, maybe now you'll feel the pain that the world has" is to state something that goes against the flow of the US.
The United States is NOT based on the things that you were raised thinking. The US is based on "Don't tread on me" now more than ever. Freedom and Equality have eluded us for 227 years - ask the Blacks or Native Americans.
The US is based on this: "Yeah, I see that you're suffering. Deal with it. If the suffering comes to us, we WILL squash it forever."
Gas prices, Terrorist factions, and humanitarian blight (Starvation and disease) fall into these categories. The US KNOWS that OPEC is a terrorist organization. They KNOW that food and health codes are hard to come by in every other country. and they KNOW that terrorism exists everywhere. They don't care.
Until it hits the US shores. Then we care. And we care enough to cast aside EVERYONE'S thoughts and inputs. The way we look at it, These other people have been dealing with the problem unsuccessfully for decades without a solution. The Evil Forces win all the time. And the US will NOT stand amongst that group.
The US Military salutes with it's right hand because we have never lost a battle. And our culture reflects this stout attitude in everything that we do. We struggle to be the best, and for the most part - we succeed in it every time. And the financial crisis and power crisis is something that other countries like Britain and Japan have succumbed to, but rest assured the US will not play the game by these rules.
Onto my point. Here are some of the issues that are pressing to me, and I'm going to give you all an insight that I have found works to squelch my fears for the future. IF you can't read all of this post, please READ THIS PART.
Gasoline. Gasoline is a chemical that is refined from large amounts that bubble up from the ground. In the 50's, oil flow was as natural as a waterfall, or the wind. IT was believed that it would never stop bubbling from the ground. It takes crude oil, and refines the impurities from it to make a chemical that reacts in a thermal action. Holding a vial of Gasoline, you must remember that it took 4 vials of crude to get that one usable vial. The rest went into making plastics, lubricants, cloth (Even natural cloth, don't fool yourself) and other things. In the late 60s engineers found a way to meter the amount of oil in the ground at a particular site. At this point, they knew it would not be as natural as a waterfall, or the wind. They knew that it would be finite. Now, pricing for the fuel is traded as a commodity, and not as a service. Because of this, the material's price would fluctuate for spillage, labor and extraction equipment.
That is, in a nutshell, what Gasoline is. And for all of that, Gasoline isn't even that all too reactive. It's been the fuel of choice because for the most part people still view it as "just bubbling out of the ground". But I do not, and I firmly believe that true car enthusiasts regard it as what it is as well. And since we are not wasteful of gasoline, I feel a bit of contempt for those that do. (Soccer moms and the ignorati that continue to waste resources). I mean, Fuel has been my Mana of sorts. But there HAS to be something better than it. In the future we will be travelling through space aboard fantastic vessels, and they simply CAN'T have to run on 105 octane. There has to be something better to power devices.
And there is. Remember how Gasoline is reactive, but it's not the most reactive substance out there. IT's not even close. But what is ?
Hydrogen. Hydrogen is the most reactive substance not in the US. Not in the Industry. Not in the world. It is the most reactive substance in the known universe ! We are now only scratching the surface at how to harness the power in Hydrogen reactions, and our development has no where to go but up !
But I got to worring AGAIN. I thought "I miss my power now! I miss having a grumbling monster under the hood, coupled to a spark-throwing evile 6 speed transmission throwing flames and rocketting down the road!" I thought that these days might be over - forever. And I'm talking more than a 1973 "The days of performance are over" kind of thing. I'm talking permanent. Like there is no way of getting it back.
Future alternative power cars lack power. They lack bravado. They lack character. Quiet, smooth and easy to drive. That's what the trend is moving towards. The days of taking my 300+hp monster across country are over. Soon, it will be just enough that my CRX or Celica is the monster of the roads while people glide miserably along the surfaces in driving appliances.
But you know, That makes no sense. Hydrogen is better than Gasoline. Any day. Gasoline is now atomized, whereas hydrogen is always atomized. Gasoline is refined over weeks of treating by people who are dying of cancerous fumes and treatments everyday. Hydrogen literally is all around us. Gasoline engines lose so much of their power in Emissions controls, while Hydrogen will NEVER need emission controls. Why too, shouldn't a Hydrogen powered car be a bad-ass, road ripping, police-terrorizing muscle magic carpet ride? Hell, A Hydrogen car should have enough bang under the low-slung hood that we should be LAUGHING at the fact that we EVER drove cars on that watered-down dino juice. Leave the oil for the plastics and textile industry - I want Hydrogen!
In 1972, when Japanese cars started making their way to shore, and 1978 when they were in full blast - People never imagined getting power out of a 4 banger. Now look at us, we are commonly driving 240+ hp 4 cylinders that are getting 3 times the amount of mileage than other cars back then... And that, even after we sat on our hands for 25 years ! (In other words, performance 4 cylinders didn't even get CONSIDERED until 25 years after we started getting them)
Now, with a gas crisis on our door step, and middle-east Oil cartels pulling that evil I'll-get-you-Powers shit on us, we WON'T sit on our hands for 25 years. We will get to work on better and more simply AWESOME cars than ever before. And within a few years, we will be free of the oil tycoons and a new world of speed, power, and cheap motoring will be at our fingertips. And it's not the Brits that are leading the way. It's not the French, the Japanese or even the Germans.
It's our American sense of "Fuck you, you will NEVER get us by the nuts again" that will see our way to a bright future in an automotive culture. Hydrogen in both cells and direct burn (Watch Scientific American Frontiers with Alan Alda for his special on this), as well as Natural gas, electric and solar / nuclear central stations will take our cars from 5, or in the case of the Formula, 22 cents per mile to .. well.. almost free !
Presidents. Soon it's election time, and I'm not going to even ATTEMPT to tell who is right or wrong. And I suggest that after this post, no one should go about on their "bush sucks" or "Kerry sucks" routines. Because even I'm over it. And I'll tell you how I became FREE of political association.
It's simple. All of these people are assholes. Now, here is my evidence:
Not even mentioning names. I'm not going to pick out the nuances of Bush nor the shortcomings of Kerry. Lets say the nominees are "Frank" and "Harry". I'm not about to attack the People, I'm about to attack the Parties. Here goes.
To show no favoritism, I'm going to start with Independent Candidates. These are the most dangerous people in the Presidential running. These are people who are under no constraints to fight for anything. For instance, if "Tom" wants to be president on a no-abortion, pro-gun and pro war platform - And he wins - Tom can simply change his mind when he becomes president. Because you see, he isn't fighting for anyone. He's fighting for his own ideals, and he holds the US economical, military, and technological might at his disposal. An independent candidate is dangerous because he really has no boss. When the house power shifts from Right to Left, he will change his policies and votes to favor whichever party will work. He will have the support of each party depending ONLY upon which bill is in the house, and the opposing team has NO chance of winning a counter-argument. You will find that an independent candidate will switch back and forth between Gay marriages, Gun Control, Family issues, Healthcare - Whatever ballot takes him in the direction of power and success. And independent candidate paves the way for extremist party rule, the likes of which we have seen from NAZI party, Stalinism, and Pol Pot. We are currently seeing this happen in France, where independent leaders have suggested, flat out suggested, kicking races out of the country. They have suggested and pushed for the banning of Religious principles. They have done more to tear down the information and liberty paths of French civilians than anyone could have imagined. And the US is simply too powerful of a machine to be placed into the hands of someone with no accountability.
Conservatives. Frank wants to run on a conservative ballot. Which is funny, because the "Republican party" was originally formed as a party of people who believed that the US should return to English rule, or at least a system that copied English Rule. Wigs in courts, Heavy Taxation, and a wealth-dominated culture that divided people by class. A Republic.
But the game has changed, even though the name has not. Now Republicans are Conservatives. They want not change, but a steady moving forth with policy and enforcement. They want, very basically, life to return as it was in the 50s. And This kinda includes McCarthyism. No one "admits" that they want McCarthy back, but they are making it come back in the form of the PATRIOT act. Now, it's beneficial for you turn in neighbors, invoke citizen's arrest and basically follow your "Good Citizen's Handbook" to be a productive member in society. They want the US to remain in Christian values, even though the majority of the population isn't even Christian (Which is exactly what England did to Iraq when they instituted a Sunni Muslim regime over a predominantly Shiite culture, then set them free). They want fuel to be cheap and plentiful. They want people to be open and friendly to their neighbors. They want a peaceful and unified America. Black, White, or otherwise - Frank is pushing for us to be prosperous and safe.
Democrats, 227ish years ago were formed to create and ensure the survival of a Democracy. A place where everyone could have a chance to prosper. They wanted us to seperate from England, and rule our land with a fair and friendly hand. They wanted Government to be the friend of the people. These were very "Liberal" concepts.
Today, The name is the same but the mission has also changed. Democrats love pushing new policy. They make new laws that make no sense. They push to ban ban ban until everyone is on equal ground. The more a law resembles religious right, the more it must be changed. They have been struggling to get us away from a world where Religion and Law weren't in the same bed, and in the process have lost touch with what is important. Unifying the people. It's unfortunate that the past Democratic presidents have done nothing but embarass the US in terms of their personal lifestyles, and their foreign policy. But damn, when a Democrat is president - The Economy puts more money in the pockets of the people. And isn't that truly what American lifestyle is based upon ? When Harry becomes president, you can be pretty sure that the US will be completely unarmed, and at the mercy of Enforcement (The same people that pull you over for Tint) and that criminals and psychopaths will continue to roam the streets, waiting for the boys in blue to leave so they can burn your neighborhood down. Until the Boys in Blue go undercover, and arrest you and seize your posessions for lighting up a cigarette. Because the Democrats acheive change in passing laws - Laws that will make Smoking, Driving, and who knows what else - Illegal. And it's only a matter of time before you are not a Citizen, but a criminal.
A few points that I only pointing out because they are important to me. They may be important to you, but chances are you don't give a shit. Anyway, Here they are.
Gun Control: This will NEVER be settled. I thought I would vote republican because I happen to love guns, and what Guns have done for societies throughout history. Yet, Conservative or Democrat - Both parties have been COMPLETELY INERT in making the laws sway one way or the other. I've given up. No candidate, Frank nor Harry, will be able to make guns stay, or go away. Gun laws will come in and out like the tides. Presidents since Taft and even Lincoln have attempted to get rid of, or solidify their place. Everyone has failed. Gun Control will never be settled.
Abortion: Same as gun control. This will never be legalised nor illegalised. Regulation will come and go like the tides.
Military Policy. One party will dominate the world in an effort to protect US lives. And it has worked. Notice how we haven't been attacked since 9/11? Notice how everyone else has? That's no coincidence. The cost for this is that we are losing rights in our own towns and soil. The Other party will bring back those rights, but the expense will be the risk of terror attacks on US soil. Like a Israeli student touring Pakistan, the US tourist will be a prime cut of red meat to anyone willing to kidnap them. Pick your poison.
Economy: One will push through healthcare at the cost of taxes. They believe that the fruits of the United States should be enjoyed by all americans. Everyone will share the burden of the few people that choose to not work. Medical care will be cheap and easy to attain - But the hospitals will lose their edge in the scientific frontier due to lack of funding. You never hear of Americans leaving the US to get better healthcare. Soon you will. The other party believes that only through development and research will we continue to make new products and leaps forward in science and markets. This economic reform is slow and painful, and you will see less and less family help (And more homeless and suffering familes) in favor of creating more companies to employ more people. More Skilled people. Like us.
in Conclusion, to bring this back to the Topic of a Car forum - Here is some sound advice I suggest.
Weigh out the options for who is going to do what for Car lovers. See who is going to either stave off the OPEC assholes while we make better systems, or who is going to violently end the OPEC testicle-hold on the US while we scramble to a quicker method. One choice leaves the change slow and relatively painless, the other leads to a painful blow to American life, with a quicker resolution.
I'm interested to see how you folks vote, and I'll clue you in as to who represents what.
-> Steve
Secondly, There is a Vote. Read this, and decide how you would handle it.
Knowledge is power. And lots of you have done your own research into what is happening in the world today - as I have. Only, because I'm a bit of a cynic, my research has led me down dark corridors of despair and anxiety.
Somethings in today's world worry me to my core. I love cars. Always have. Now, I find that owning cars is too financially strenuous, and even if I could afford it by making lots of money, it certainly costs more than it should.
Two thoughts have occured to me during these times of doubt. One, is the cost of Fuel. I know that US has paid the least for fuel in all of the world, but that should not negate my opinions, nor the opinions of others to keep the cost of driving down. By saying that the US "Should get a grip, maybe now you'll feel the pain that the world has" is to state something that goes against the flow of the US.
The United States is NOT based on the things that you were raised thinking. The US is based on "Don't tread on me" now more than ever. Freedom and Equality have eluded us for 227 years - ask the Blacks or Native Americans.
The US is based on this: "Yeah, I see that you're suffering. Deal with it. If the suffering comes to us, we WILL squash it forever."
Gas prices, Terrorist factions, and humanitarian blight (Starvation and disease) fall into these categories. The US KNOWS that OPEC is a terrorist organization. They KNOW that food and health codes are hard to come by in every other country. and they KNOW that terrorism exists everywhere. They don't care.
Until it hits the US shores. Then we care. And we care enough to cast aside EVERYONE'S thoughts and inputs. The way we look at it, These other people have been dealing with the problem unsuccessfully for decades without a solution. The Evil Forces win all the time. And the US will NOT stand amongst that group.
The US Military salutes with it's right hand because we have never lost a battle. And our culture reflects this stout attitude in everything that we do. We struggle to be the best, and for the most part - we succeed in it every time. And the financial crisis and power crisis is something that other countries like Britain and Japan have succumbed to, but rest assured the US will not play the game by these rules.
Onto my point. Here are some of the issues that are pressing to me, and I'm going to give you all an insight that I have found works to squelch my fears for the future. IF you can't read all of this post, please READ THIS PART.
Gasoline. Gasoline is a chemical that is refined from large amounts that bubble up from the ground. In the 50's, oil flow was as natural as a waterfall, or the wind. IT was believed that it would never stop bubbling from the ground. It takes crude oil, and refines the impurities from it to make a chemical that reacts in a thermal action. Holding a vial of Gasoline, you must remember that it took 4 vials of crude to get that one usable vial. The rest went into making plastics, lubricants, cloth (Even natural cloth, don't fool yourself) and other things. In the late 60s engineers found a way to meter the amount of oil in the ground at a particular site. At this point, they knew it would not be as natural as a waterfall, or the wind. They knew that it would be finite. Now, pricing for the fuel is traded as a commodity, and not as a service. Because of this, the material's price would fluctuate for spillage, labor and extraction equipment.
That is, in a nutshell, what Gasoline is. And for all of that, Gasoline isn't even that all too reactive. It's been the fuel of choice because for the most part people still view it as "just bubbling out of the ground". But I do not, and I firmly believe that true car enthusiasts regard it as what it is as well. And since we are not wasteful of gasoline, I feel a bit of contempt for those that do. (Soccer moms and the ignorati that continue to waste resources). I mean, Fuel has been my Mana of sorts. But there HAS to be something better than it. In the future we will be travelling through space aboard fantastic vessels, and they simply CAN'T have to run on 105 octane. There has to be something better to power devices.
And there is. Remember how Gasoline is reactive, but it's not the most reactive substance out there. IT's not even close. But what is ?
Hydrogen. Hydrogen is the most reactive substance not in the US. Not in the Industry. Not in the world. It is the most reactive substance in the known universe ! We are now only scratching the surface at how to harness the power in Hydrogen reactions, and our development has no where to go but up !
But I got to worring AGAIN. I thought "I miss my power now! I miss having a grumbling monster under the hood, coupled to a spark-throwing evile 6 speed transmission throwing flames and rocketting down the road!" I thought that these days might be over - forever. And I'm talking more than a 1973 "The days of performance are over" kind of thing. I'm talking permanent. Like there is no way of getting it back.
Future alternative power cars lack power. They lack bravado. They lack character. Quiet, smooth and easy to drive. That's what the trend is moving towards. The days of taking my 300+hp monster across country are over. Soon, it will be just enough that my CRX or Celica is the monster of the roads while people glide miserably along the surfaces in driving appliances.
But you know, That makes no sense. Hydrogen is better than Gasoline. Any day. Gasoline is now atomized, whereas hydrogen is always atomized. Gasoline is refined over weeks of treating by people who are dying of cancerous fumes and treatments everyday. Hydrogen literally is all around us. Gasoline engines lose so much of their power in Emissions controls, while Hydrogen will NEVER need emission controls. Why too, shouldn't a Hydrogen powered car be a bad-ass, road ripping, police-terrorizing muscle magic carpet ride? Hell, A Hydrogen car should have enough bang under the low-slung hood that we should be LAUGHING at the fact that we EVER drove cars on that watered-down dino juice. Leave the oil for the plastics and textile industry - I want Hydrogen!
In 1972, when Japanese cars started making their way to shore, and 1978 when they were in full blast - People never imagined getting power out of a 4 banger. Now look at us, we are commonly driving 240+ hp 4 cylinders that are getting 3 times the amount of mileage than other cars back then... And that, even after we sat on our hands for 25 years ! (In other words, performance 4 cylinders didn't even get CONSIDERED until 25 years after we started getting them)
Now, with a gas crisis on our door step, and middle-east Oil cartels pulling that evil I'll-get-you-Powers shit on us, we WON'T sit on our hands for 25 years. We will get to work on better and more simply AWESOME cars than ever before. And within a few years, we will be free of the oil tycoons and a new world of speed, power, and cheap motoring will be at our fingertips. And it's not the Brits that are leading the way. It's not the French, the Japanese or even the Germans.
It's our American sense of "Fuck you, you will NEVER get us by the nuts again" that will see our way to a bright future in an automotive culture. Hydrogen in both cells and direct burn (Watch Scientific American Frontiers with Alan Alda for his special on this), as well as Natural gas, electric and solar / nuclear central stations will take our cars from 5, or in the case of the Formula, 22 cents per mile to .. well.. almost free !
Presidents. Soon it's election time, and I'm not going to even ATTEMPT to tell who is right or wrong. And I suggest that after this post, no one should go about on their "bush sucks" or "Kerry sucks" routines. Because even I'm over it. And I'll tell you how I became FREE of political association.
It's simple. All of these people are assholes. Now, here is my evidence:
Not even mentioning names. I'm not going to pick out the nuances of Bush nor the shortcomings of Kerry. Lets say the nominees are "Frank" and "Harry". I'm not about to attack the People, I'm about to attack the Parties. Here goes.
To show no favoritism, I'm going to start with Independent Candidates. These are the most dangerous people in the Presidential running. These are people who are under no constraints to fight for anything. For instance, if "Tom" wants to be president on a no-abortion, pro-gun and pro war platform - And he wins - Tom can simply change his mind when he becomes president. Because you see, he isn't fighting for anyone. He's fighting for his own ideals, and he holds the US economical, military, and technological might at his disposal. An independent candidate is dangerous because he really has no boss. When the house power shifts from Right to Left, he will change his policies and votes to favor whichever party will work. He will have the support of each party depending ONLY upon which bill is in the house, and the opposing team has NO chance of winning a counter-argument. You will find that an independent candidate will switch back and forth between Gay marriages, Gun Control, Family issues, Healthcare - Whatever ballot takes him in the direction of power and success. And independent candidate paves the way for extremist party rule, the likes of which we have seen from NAZI party, Stalinism, and Pol Pot. We are currently seeing this happen in France, where independent leaders have suggested, flat out suggested, kicking races out of the country. They have suggested and pushed for the banning of Religious principles. They have done more to tear down the information and liberty paths of French civilians than anyone could have imagined. And the US is simply too powerful of a machine to be placed into the hands of someone with no accountability.
Conservatives. Frank wants to run on a conservative ballot. Which is funny, because the "Republican party" was originally formed as a party of people who believed that the US should return to English rule, or at least a system that copied English Rule. Wigs in courts, Heavy Taxation, and a wealth-dominated culture that divided people by class. A Republic.
But the game has changed, even though the name has not. Now Republicans are Conservatives. They want not change, but a steady moving forth with policy and enforcement. They want, very basically, life to return as it was in the 50s. And This kinda includes McCarthyism. No one "admits" that they want McCarthy back, but they are making it come back in the form of the PATRIOT act. Now, it's beneficial for you turn in neighbors, invoke citizen's arrest and basically follow your "Good Citizen's Handbook" to be a productive member in society. They want the US to remain in Christian values, even though the majority of the population isn't even Christian (Which is exactly what England did to Iraq when they instituted a Sunni Muslim regime over a predominantly Shiite culture, then set them free). They want fuel to be cheap and plentiful. They want people to be open and friendly to their neighbors. They want a peaceful and unified America. Black, White, or otherwise - Frank is pushing for us to be prosperous and safe.
Democrats, 227ish years ago were formed to create and ensure the survival of a Democracy. A place where everyone could have a chance to prosper. They wanted us to seperate from England, and rule our land with a fair and friendly hand. They wanted Government to be the friend of the people. These were very "Liberal" concepts.
Today, The name is the same but the mission has also changed. Democrats love pushing new policy. They make new laws that make no sense. They push to ban ban ban until everyone is on equal ground. The more a law resembles religious right, the more it must be changed. They have been struggling to get us away from a world where Religion and Law weren't in the same bed, and in the process have lost touch with what is important. Unifying the people. It's unfortunate that the past Democratic presidents have done nothing but embarass the US in terms of their personal lifestyles, and their foreign policy. But damn, when a Democrat is president - The Economy puts more money in the pockets of the people. And isn't that truly what American lifestyle is based upon ? When Harry becomes president, you can be pretty sure that the US will be completely unarmed, and at the mercy of Enforcement (The same people that pull you over for Tint) and that criminals and psychopaths will continue to roam the streets, waiting for the boys in blue to leave so they can burn your neighborhood down. Until the Boys in Blue go undercover, and arrest you and seize your posessions for lighting up a cigarette. Because the Democrats acheive change in passing laws - Laws that will make Smoking, Driving, and who knows what else - Illegal. And it's only a matter of time before you are not a Citizen, but a criminal.
A few points that I only pointing out because they are important to me. They may be important to you, but chances are you don't give a shit. Anyway, Here they are.
Gun Control: This will NEVER be settled. I thought I would vote republican because I happen to love guns, and what Guns have done for societies throughout history. Yet, Conservative or Democrat - Both parties have been COMPLETELY INERT in making the laws sway one way or the other. I've given up. No candidate, Frank nor Harry, will be able to make guns stay, or go away. Gun laws will come in and out like the tides. Presidents since Taft and even Lincoln have attempted to get rid of, or solidify their place. Everyone has failed. Gun Control will never be settled.
Abortion: Same as gun control. This will never be legalised nor illegalised. Regulation will come and go like the tides.
Military Policy. One party will dominate the world in an effort to protect US lives. And it has worked. Notice how we haven't been attacked since 9/11? Notice how everyone else has? That's no coincidence. The cost for this is that we are losing rights in our own towns and soil. The Other party will bring back those rights, but the expense will be the risk of terror attacks on US soil. Like a Israeli student touring Pakistan, the US tourist will be a prime cut of red meat to anyone willing to kidnap them. Pick your poison.
Economy: One will push through healthcare at the cost of taxes. They believe that the fruits of the United States should be enjoyed by all americans. Everyone will share the burden of the few people that choose to not work. Medical care will be cheap and easy to attain - But the hospitals will lose their edge in the scientific frontier due to lack of funding. You never hear of Americans leaving the US to get better healthcare. Soon you will. The other party believes that only through development and research will we continue to make new products and leaps forward in science and markets. This economic reform is slow and painful, and you will see less and less family help (And more homeless and suffering familes) in favor of creating more companies to employ more people. More Skilled people. Like us.
in Conclusion, to bring this back to the Topic of a Car forum - Here is some sound advice I suggest.
Weigh out the options for who is going to do what for Car lovers. See who is going to either stave off the OPEC assholes while we make better systems, or who is going to violently end the OPEC testicle-hold on the US while we scramble to a quicker method. One choice leaves the change slow and relatively painless, the other leads to a painful blow to American life, with a quicker resolution.
I'm interested to see how you folks vote, and I'll clue you in as to who represents what.
-> Steve