the smoking bans and business

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putting legalities to the side, the basic principle is they are both addictions.
becoming addicted to something, or even if your not addicted, choosing to do something is your choice, your problem, you should handle the consequences.
arguing that you should be able to practice your addiction whenever and wherever you want is arguing that you should be able to force your addiction, your choice, on people who have chosen the opposite.
like i said before, its all about respect and common curtesy. smokers are the minority, why should the majority have to placate them and "deal with it?"
more like if you choose to smoke then you should deal with the fact you cant do it in public areas when your surrounded by people who have chosen not to smoke.
 
Smoking isn't a cause of excessive breaktime, bad work ethics are.

Like Brian said he smokes, 3mins, hell even five, if you need 15 minutes to smoke, than it is the person, not the cigarette. I have worked plenty of places that didn't give you a break for hours at a time, no biggie, doesn't bother me.

Like Sabz5150 said, non smokers are prone to the same slacking off, just they don't smoke. Hell I know non smokers that are 100 times lazier at work than almost any smoker I know.
 
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk
Published: Sunday 8 March 1998 Author: Victoria Macdonald

Passive smoking doesn't cause cancer - official
By Victoria Macdonald, Health Correspondent

THE world's leading health organisation has withheld from publication a study which shows that not only might there be no link between passive smoking and lung cancer but that it could even have a protective effect.

The astounding results are set to throw wide open the debate on passive smoking health risks. The World Health Organisation, which commissioned the 12-centre, seven-country European study has failed to make the findings public, and has instead produced only a summary of the results in an internal report.

Despite repeated approaches, nobody at the WHO headquarters in Geneva would comment on the findings last week. At its International Agency for Research on Cancer in Lyon, France, which coordinated the study, a spokesman would say only that the full report had been submitted to a science journal and no publication date had been set.

The findings are certain to be an embarrassment to the WHO, which has spent years and vast sums on anti-smoking and anti-tobacco campaigns. The study is one of the largest ever to look at the link between passive smoking - or environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) - and lung cancer, and had been eagerly awaited by medical experts and campaigning groups.

Yet the scientists have found that there was no statistical evidence that passive smoking caused lung cancer. The research compared 650 lung cancer patients with 1,542 healthy people. It looked at people who were married to smokers, worked with smokers, both worked and were married to smokers, and those who grew up with smokers.

The results are consistent with their being no additional risk for a person living or working with a smoker and could be consistent with passive smoke having a protective effect against lung cancer. The summary, seen by The Telegraph, also states: "There was no association between lung cancer risk and ETS exposure during childhood."

A spokesman for Action on Smoking and Health said the findings "seem rather surprising given the evidence from other major reviews on the subject which have shown a clear association between passive smoking and a number of diseases." Roy Castle, the jazz musician and television presenter who died from lung cancer in 1994, claimed that he contracted the disease from years of inhaling smoke while performing in pubs and clubs.

A report published in the British Medical Journal last October was hailed by the anti-tobacco lobby as definitive proof when it claimed that non-smokers living with smokers had a 25 per cent risk of developing lung cancer. But yesterday, Dr Chris Proctor, head of science for BAT Industries, the tobacco group, said the findings had to be taken seriously. "If this study cannot find any statistically valid risk you have to ask if there can be any risk at all.

"It confirms what we and many other scientists have long believed, that while smoking in public may be annoying to some non-smokers, the science does not show that being around a smoker is a lung-cancer risk."
The WHO study results come at a time when the British Government has made clear its intention to crack down on smoking in thousands of public places, including bars and restaurants.

The Government's own Scientific Committee on Smoking and Health is also expected to report shortly - possibly in time for this Wednesday's National No Smoking day - on the hazards of passive smoking.



hmmmm.... according to the World Health Organization there is no risk, infact people smoking around you actually protects you from lung cancer.
perhaps instead of bitching, you should all be thanking us smokers


but whatever im sure a study by the W.H.O. wont mean shit to any of you
 
I used to be a bar-back a few years ago. The owner was from Cali and he told me that when the smoking ban happened it was actually good for business. Because people didn't have cigs to smoke they needed to have something in their hands/mouths to fill the void....therefore they bought more drinks.

Seems rational.
 
Originally posted by E_SolSi@Jan 3 2005, 01:22 PM
hmmmm.... according to the World Health Organization there is no risk, infact people smoking around you actually protects you from lung cancer.
perhaps instead of bitching, you should all be thanking us smokers


but whatever im sure a study by the W.H.O. wont mean shit to any of you
[post=440571]Quoted post[/post]​


Ummm, no. Reading comprehension owns j00.

According to "a study", which was written by "scientists", secondhand smoke doesn't pose a risk.

The WHO refused to comment, most likely so that they could get all their facts straight about the study before commenting.

The only quotes in that article are from pro-smoking people.

There aren't any facts or statistics published from the article, other than the research group numbers. Until the actual report/study gets published in a well-reknowned science/medical journal, it's nothing more than a story written by a 3rd grader.
 
wether its actually a health risk or not is irrelevant to me, i couldnt care less about my health lol

it smells like shit
 
Hey look, I can Google too!

"...there are at least 50 very reputable studies that find a link between secondhand smoke and lung cancer and at least 50 others that find an increased risk of heart disease..."

American Lung Association

Mayo Clinic, via CNN

Swedish Medical Center

It's funny....most of the previous arguments against secondhand smoke being dangerous came from places like "junkscience.com", "smokingpermitted.com", and "FORCES INTERNATIONAL (Forces, Inc.) is a non-profit educational corporation organized under the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, USA." Reputable sources indeed! My sources are from the Mayo Clinic, Swedish Medical Center, and the American Lung Association. Who are you inclined to believe? :)
 
Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord@Jan 4 2005, 09:18 PM
Hey look, I can Google too!

"...there are at least 50 very reputable studies that find a link between secondhand smoke and lung cancer and at least 50 others that find an increased risk of heart disease..."

American Lung Association

Mayo Clinic, via CNN

Swedish Medical Center

It's funny....most of the previous arguments against secondhand smoke being dangerous came from places like "junkscience.com", "smokingpermitted.com", and "FORCES INTERNATIONAL (Forces, Inc.) is a non-profit educational corporation organized under the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, USA." Reputable sources indeed! My sources are from the Mayo Clinic, Swedish Medical Center, and the American Lung Association. Who are you inclined to believe? :)
[post=441010]Quoted post[/post]​

For one thing, trying to lessen the validity of my sources without knowing anything about them is not good. As you said "Junkscience" in such a condosending way, turns out that it is a site dedicated to debunking BS that use guess what? Junkscience, by who? Everyone, not antismoking lobbist, or leftwingnuts, but...

Junk science?

"Junk science" is faulty scientific data and analysis used to advance special and, often, hidden agendas. The junk science "mob" includes:

The MEDIA may use junk science for sensational headlines and programming. Some members of the media use junk science to advance their and their employers' social and political agendas.

PERSONAL INJURY LAWYERS may use junk science to bamboozle juries into awarding huge verdicts. Large verdicts may then be used to extort even greater sums from deep-pocket businesses fearful of future jury verdicts.

SOCIAL ACTIVISTS, such as the "food police," environmental extremists, and gun-control advocates, may use junk science to achieve social and political change.

GOVERNMENT REGULATORS may use junk science to expand their authority and to increase their budgets.

BUSINESSES may use junk science to bad-mouth competitors' products or to make bogus claims about their own products.

POLITICIANS may use junk science to curry favor with special interest groups or to be "politically correct."

INDIVIDUAL SCIENTISTS may use junk science to achieve fame and fortune.

INDIVIDUALS who are ill (real or imagined) may use junk science to blame others for causing their illness.

Read, then persecute. As far as Smokingpermitted, well do you think that the AHA is going to publish something I can use in a debate about smoking for the pro side? Besides they only thing they say is reenforcing, and giving links to reputible PUBLISHED documents and court cases. And also Forces International just delivering more links to the facts.


And is it my imagination, or in the articles you sited, do they say MAY a whole lot more than they say "does", or "proven to"? Oh that's right, because they can't prove, not haven't tried, but can not, that it does.

And I like this, In 1992, the Environmental Protection Agency classified environmental tobacco smoke in the most dangerous category of cancer-causing agents. Secondhand smoke is linked to cancers of the lung, breast, cervix and bladder.
Yet that study has been ruled against everytime it has come into court.

From LungUSA...

There are an estimated 150,000 to 300,000 cases every year of infections, such as bronchitis and pneumonia in infants and children under 18 months of age who breathe secondhand smoke. These result in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations!

150,000-300,000 is a huge gap in numbers, seems they would get that info right before trying to use it. And is it because of secind hand smoke? Or maybe their living conditions suck, I don't know, they don't say, but boy does it sound damning.

And the Swedish Medical Center...

Cancer
Although one well-publicized 2003 study did not find a link between cancer and secondhand smoke, results from over 50 trials in the last 25 years have convinced most researchers that ETS can lead to lung cancer.

Oh hte trials, convinced them? Interesting. This is science?
 
One study versus 50 studies, and you're inclined to believe the one study?

Of course you can't "prove" that secondhand smoke causes cancer. That's just plain stupid. Just like you can't "prove" that high cholesterol causes heart attacks. But what you can do is, perform studies that look for patterns and recurring symptoms among people who have similar lifestyles and habits. For this reason, people who publish studies and findings use the words "may" more often than "does", because things such as the issues that we're talking about can never be proven.

It's pretty amusing that some smokers get so butt-hurt over this issue. They want to believe that forcing their habit upon people who have chosen not to smoke is OK, because tobacco use is OK.

Just thought I'd link you to one other site, the Center for Disease Control.
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/statehi/statehi_2002.htm
They've got some pretty interesting statistics....like, the more educated you are, the less likely you are to smoke. Interesting! As you get older, you become less likely to smoke. Interesting again (possibly because smokers die earlier than non-smokers?). And of course, there's always the lifespan comparison of smokers vs. non-smokers.

As a side note, I like the fact that I pay less for health insurance (and life insurance when I decide to buy that) because I don't smoke.
 
Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord@Jan 5 2005, 05:36 PM
It's pretty amusing that some smokers get so butt-hurt over this issue. They want to believe that forcing their habit upon people who have chosen not to smoke is OK, because tobacco use is OK.

[post=441411]Quoted post[/post]​

What's amusing is that nonsmokers keep trying to say that we are "forcing" our habit on them. You can choose to go to a nonsmoking establishment, no one is forcing ANYTHING on you. There are just as many resturants or bars that will choose to have a nonsmoking facility as there are smoking. But the fact is that the agenda is draconian and fascist, all while being under the guise of "the betterment" of man. I don't need others ideas of what I can do, or where I can do it. I am not going to protest nonsmoking facilities, so nonsmokers can stay the hell out of my bars.

You call it butthurt, I call it sick of nonsmoker bullshit.
 
While new to this forum, and the (unfortunate) friend of 92b16vx in real life, im gonna have to side with him on this issue. Prior to my starting smoking about 9 months ago, I used to complain about those who did, the smell, the irritated eyes, blah blah blah. Now, I can kinda understand where theyre (smokers) coming from. I cant say that its a good habit, but I see why people do it, and also why they continue to do it despite all the laws/studies/whatever saying that smoking is bad. I say do what you want. After spending a year living with the same 6 people in a 12x12 room, I can say that no matter how cool someone is, theres gonna be something that pisses you off about em, smoker or not. So hey, if people wanna smoke and do all this crap to themselves that so many studies have shown could/might/may/possibly harm themselves, let em!




Oh I forgot to mention it, but 92b16vx, I rocked your world at Halo 2!

- - - - - - - I R TEH WINNAR!!11 - - - - - - -
 
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