Twin Turbo Honda

[endlesszeal]

the Apex-I Drag Integra has a twin turbo setup.. it ran like a 8.9 or something (to somewhat encourge you?), but ive heard their about to go single because the twin was for show only.. also, skylines and supras have two more cylinders and usually have at least 1 more litre than a B series, so they have more exhaust flow.. i believe the skyline, rx-7, and supra are all sequential turbos too.. which is a very complicating setup.. and if you've noticed, most of the drag skylines, supras, etc.. toss the TT setup and get a gigantic T-88 or something anway.. so, twin turbo civic? save the money and go single and go even faster.. just my two cents.. peace

 

[ovcrash]

What would give a better boost?
Big Turbo or JacksonRacong supercharger? i know there has been alot of question and fights about what is bettre, but i think that the supercharger gives no lag (tell me if i'm wrong) So i think that would be a advantage. But to come back to my question, what would be the best on a JDM H22A ?? I think the turbo is more manageanble than a supercharger.
I really don't know what to go for, because if i look at most of the drag cars they all have turbos, why don't they go with supercharger since there's no lag? Is the supercharger still good even at high RPM, and top end power? or it's only good for low end power and starts for torque?

If some one has a good opinion on what to go with for a H22A let me know, i'm really confused.

Thanks alot

 

[BlackJDMdeath]

ok first things first... the fastest cars in the world use superchargers, plain and simple, but these are also blowers that are so fucking big it takes over 1kbhp to just turn them, they make upwards of 6kwhp at the very least.

second, i have NEVER understood what the big deal about boost from practically idle was, do you race at under 3 grand??? if you do, you shouldnt own a vehicle. honda engines make their power up top, so obviously, that's where you are going to want that thing stuffed full of air, not down low, up top superchargers run out of breath, unless you're running a massive blower, and if you are, you prolly dont have a civic. lol... anyhow

the most efficient cylinder engine is a flat engine, or horizontally opposed if you like. this explains the design of f1 engines and why there are rules against the engine actually being completely flat. not only is it more efficient, it also lowers the center of gravity, which is a good thing.

also, whoever said that auto-x guys go for big single turbos, you're on crack. in auto-x a big single turbo would actually be working AGAINST you, you want it to spool as fast as possible.

i say ditch the twin turbo civic, unless its a twin turbo nsx engine, then that's a totally different subject anyhow, if you're going to drag, i say single turbo, none of that twin stuff, if you plan to auto-x, go with a roots style blower.

 

[Canuck 93 Civic Si]

Well it looks like the best idea is to find a nice big single turbo to work with and since i cant get anything that big out of the junkyard, B can you tell me where you got your turbo from? Or can anyone tell me a good reputable place to find one? Thanks

Also the horizontally opposed engine is NOT the most powerful engine setup. Just read the previous posts, it has been stated and if you need proof I will be happy to show you some.

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by Canuck 93 Civic Si@Mar 12 2003, 09:16 PM
Im not comparing F1 technology to street cars, im simply stating the fact that all engines arent created equal ( duh ) and the setups with the best power to weight ratio are:

1st Radial
2nd Vee
3rd Horizontally Opposed
4th Inline

This is of course not considering elements such as VTEC, FI or NOS but the point is some engines are able to produce more displacement without adding on that much extra weight. i.e and extra crank journals for one or two additional cylinders.

for a v8 the v-shape is the best. but any 6-cylinder v-shape is not as good as one that is inline. i would say the flat engines are second.

As for using tossing twin turbo for a single turbo for drag on a skyline, supra and rx-7, never have i seen it. But tossing the TT for single on autoX, I can see that.
Here's a link to a guy named mario who is currently building one of the high horsepower skyline- Exvitermini check out some of the videos and youll see why the TT setup is better than the single for drag.

TT on honda is possible and useful-for very high boost(most likely plus 30psi). i know b/c its already been done. but anything lower than that it would be extra weight.

The whole point of a big SINGLE turbo setup is for a SLOW spool up. The whole point of TT is a fast spool.

 

[K2e2vin]

fast spool=sudden burst of power=loss of traction=hitting wall

 

[NoJokE]

Originally posted by K2e2vin+Mar 13 2003, 08:31 PM-->

Canuck 93 Civic Si

@Mar 12 2003, 09:16 PM
Im not comparing F1 technology to street cars, im simply stating the fact that all engines arent created equal ( duh ) and the setups with the best power to weight ratio are:

1st Radial
2nd Vee
3rd Horizontally Opposed
4th Inline

This is of course not considering elements such as VTEC, FI or NOS but the point is some engines are able to produce more displacement without adding on that much extra weight. i.e and extra crank journals for one or two additional cylinders.

for a v8 the v-shape is the best. but any 6-cylinder v-shape is not as good as one that is inline. i would say the flat engines are second.

As for using tossing twin turbo for a single turbo for drag on a skyline, supra and rx-7, never have i seen it. But tossing the TT for single on autoX, I can see that.
Here's a link to a guy named mario who is currently building one of the high horsepower skyline- Exvitermini check out some of the videos and youll see why the TT setup is better than the single for drag.

TT on honda is possible and useful-for very high boost(most likely plus 30psi). i know b/c its already been done. but anything lower than that it would be extra weight.

The whole point of a big SINGLE turbo setup is for a SLOW spool up. The whole point of TT is a fast spool.

first of all, a V8 or a V6 is the same thing, its a V. so if its good for a V8 its good for a V6. And you never have seen a twin turbo being dumped for a single turbo for drag?!?? are you insane? the purpose of twin turbos is that it is awesome for street cuz you have a quick spooling small turbo for boost in the low end and then you have a bigger turbo to take care of the top end. For drag, a single turbo upgrade means that you can get a monstrous turbo since you only use the top end for drag. A single turbo upgrade will kill a twin turbo in drag any day. And the whole purpose of a single turbo for drag is since you dont need the low end anyway you can put up with lag, and then you can have HUGE top end power.

 

[NoJokE]

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Mar 13 2003, 08:32 PM
fast spool=sudden burst of power=loss of traction=hitting wall

ok?

 

[K2e2vin]

you are talking about using turbos in series. Using turbos (that are the same size) would give you more airflow, and not using a single turbo that would take awhile to spool. I see top speed cars using singles but not dragsters. I guess you have never seen them. The twin turbo setup in skylines are known to jump dynos. I am talking about turbos in parallel.

v8s and v6s are NOT similar in piston position. during a compression stroke on an 8- 2 cylinders on each side combust, for total of four, and second stroke its the same. not for a 6, during a powerstroke the 6 would have 2 on each side, total of four. than next powerstroke is only 1 cylinder on each side, total of 2.

 

[NoJokE]

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Mar 13 2003, 08:50 PM
you are talking about using turbos in series.

Sequential is the word. And basically every stock twin turbo car IS sequential.

 

[NoJokE]

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Mar 13 2003, 08:50 PM


v8s and v6s are NOT similar in piston position.

Whos talking about piston position? If you want to slap 2 turbos on a V configuration it is the same whether it is a 6, 8, 10. One turbo for each side of the V. Of course piston position would be slightly different since one has less cylinders than another, but that wasnt what we were discussing.

 

[K2e2vin]

Not really. Doesnt Nissan put twin turbos in there cars(300ZX and Skyline). Twin as in meaning two that are exactly similar.

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by TypeRcivic+Mar 13 2003, 08:59 PM-->

K2e2vin

@Mar 13 2003, 08:50 PM


v8s and v6s are NOT similar in piston position.

Whos talking about piston position? If you want to slap 2 turbos on a V configuration it is the same whether it is a 6, 8, 10. One turbo for each side of the V. Of course piston position would be slightly different since one has less cylinders than another, but that wasnt what we were discussing.

I was saying that because it can affect how power is made.

 

[NoJokE]

Originally posted by K2e2vin+Mar 13 2003, 09:01 PM-->

Originally posted by TypeRcivic@Mar 13 2003, 08:59 PM
K2e2vin

@Mar 13 2003, 08:50 PM


v8s and v6s are NOT similar in piston position.

Whos talking about piston position? If you want to slap 2 turbos on a V configuration it is the same whether it is a 6, 8, 10. One turbo for each side of the V. Of course piston position would be slightly different since one has less cylinders than another, but that wasnt what we were discussing.

I was saying that because it can affect how power is made.

yea i think 2 more cylinders can affect power output slightly

 

[K2e2vin]

Example, Most power ive seen from in turbo form:
Honda inline 4 (2.2L, 550cc per cylinder) -around 900hp, 409hp/liter
Nissan inline 6 (2.6L, 433cc per cylinder) -around 1200hp 462hp/liter
Nissan v6 (3.0L, 500cc per cylinder) -around 800hp 267hp/liter
Toyota v8 (3.0L, 375cc per cylinder) -around 1300hp 434hp/liter

Now the honda is at a little disadvantage displacement wize, but they are both balanced, which shows high hp per liter. Now the v6 and the v8 are similar in displacement, but the v8 is more balanced and pushes out more power. Than compare the v6 to the i6, the i6 is more balanced and produces more power. All of the engines are in twin turbo except for the Honda (the turbos are congruent in the TT cars)

 

[NoJokE]

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Mar 13 2003, 09:22 PM

Toyota v8 (3.0L, 375cc per cylinder) -around 1300hp 434hp/liter

a 3.0 liter V8? which car? I've never seen a V8 THAT small

 

[K2e2vin]

Aw never mind the v8. I got the displacement wrong, its around 4L. Just look at the i6 and v6

 

[posol]

to the person who asked where i got that from, http://www.full-race.com

i'm done with this topic. its been talked about so many times.

fact is, half of the people here talking about it can't even afford a single turbo setup to push them to 500 horse.... so why spend another grand on a turbo, and 200 on a wasgate? and more on piping? and a custom manifold? and blah fucking blah
the cost factor sucks ass too

 

[endlesszeal]

Alot of skylines, supras, etc toss the the twin setup and go with the T-88 34D with nitrous.. i think the Titan Supra uses it (9.00 street radials) and for sure Signal Auto uses it.. hit me back if im wrong.. but im certain lots of people ditch the twin and go single for drag and usually keep the twin for road racing..
Also, the most hp ive seen from a Nissan is not "only" 1200, its more like almost 1400hp.. Veilside Skyline GTR R34 anyone? they use twin HKS GT-3240 Turbos and said it added about 1100 hp to the original.. so about 300 + 1100 = 1400.. i dont know if its for a fact because ive never seen the actual dyno sheets because from what i hear, GTRs just grab too much traction and often jump of the rollers.. ( id expect so, since dumping the clutch at 8000rpm makes about "only" two revolution of wheel spin).. anyway, everything is of my knowledge, which isnt much, but please correct if im mistaken.. peace

 

[posol]

you are correct