3040 VS 4040 proportioning valve swap theory...

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Originally posted by seanjuan@Jun 17 2005, 12:38 AM
]this thread is starting to go horribly off track

anyone got anything informative to say about the 30/30 vs the 40/40
other than "I think the 30 has smaller openings than the 40"?[/B]
[post=513146]Quoted post[/post]


92-95 Proportioning valve parts number:

46210-SR3-013 EX 2 door
46210-SR3-013 DX
46210-SR3-013 CX
46210-SR3-013 VX
46210-SR3-962 Si
46210-SR3-962 LX 4 door <----I have my doubts about these, I looked at a four door DX and it had a 3030
46210-SR3-962 DX 4 door <----

Ok, I am bored, unfortunately I don't have a 3040 only a 3030, so this can maybe help figure out how these work...

First, broken in half, er, taken apart carefully...

gallery_630_324_12478.jpg


Ok, so they have an opening, that has a small plunger that moves up and down, if I had a Dremel, I would cut one in half and look, but I don't....

gallery_630_324_62239.jpg


Now the weirdness, when the two are put together, the plungers push each other down. I really wish I had a 3040 so I could compare the diameters, and a dremel so I could disect one. I have never found any good solid info on the inner workings of these...

gallery_630_324_66967.jpg


So I am guessing the two pushing each other keeps empty space from forming in the lines, and acts as kind of a check valve system, along with giving the proper space to move what where. Anyone have any more info?[/B]
 
Sorry, I could not find mine. Think I must have thrown it away. Too many part lying around.

Can you get that snap ring out? should release the plunger (thats what I called the spool in an earlier post).

I have dremel.

I am wondering if as the pressure builds, say on the backs it pushed the spool the opposite direction. This would balance the pressure between the front and back. The amount of fluid is then controlled by the size of the orifice.
 
Yip, here they are. That could be it too, sort of an ebb and flow, give and take system. Of course if they were the same 3030 that is, than wouldn't that imply an even split to front and rear? Maybe so, but then what is 4040? Damn, we need a 40 to compare to.


gallery_630_324_17356.jpg

gallery_630_324_61176.jpg

gallery_630_324_35281.jpg
 
i got the 4040 from the DA... i'll see if i can take it apart tomorrow, now that i'm not going to use it.... also i'll see what the hatch has. i meant to look tonight, but i forgot... and now its late, dark, and rainy, and im a lazy ass :p
 
Ok so if your 110% sure the cx is 30/30, i'm thinking I should use the 40/40 pv that came with my brake swap because i'm assuming it might split a higher volume of fluid evenly. I too do not yet understand the entire workings of the pv, but what do you think, go with the 40/40? How hard is to remove the lines from the pv because the one I have has the lines still in them, just cut. Assuming it might be a pain if the lines were just cut or maybe he was lazy.
 
What is all that crud on the spool ends? Old brake fluid and dirt. If so I will unassemble my 4040 and clean it. Don't what that junk in this fresh system.

lol... please don't lie to me just to get me to take it apart.....I have way to much to do.....
 
Yea, all the crud is just dirt and crap that has stuck to the left over moistness.

Ok, so I went to the yard, and got another one because I love you guys so much, and find this interesting. The one I got was a 4030. So upon opening it up, I find that I had forgotten that when I opened first one up a couple years ago, there were two springs inside, which you can see in the bottom pic...

Ok, so I figured 4030 one side would be bigger than the other...nope. The purple ionidized ones are from the 4030, the silver ones are from the previous 3030...

gallery_630_324_1719.jpg


The black housings are fitted to the "plunger", and fit in any of the housings. All the outside pieces can fit all the black ones, so the difference is on the inside of the black ones...

gallery_630_324_8615.jpg


And finally, the afore mentioned springs. Two of them, one large outer and one small inner, you can see how they sit together...

gallery_630_324_7040.jpg


So, since the insides are the same size on the respective valves, that must mean that 3040, 4040, 3030, whatever, refers to the springs inside, or maybe a combination meaning of the springs, and size. I really wish I had the interior springs from the 3030, as that would give this all more meaning.
 
I guess I will be disassembling a 4040.

Do all the cross drills look the same size?

You lost me, inner springs on the 3030?

Doesn't the inner plunger (silver & annodized) fit into the block oxided sleeve.

I'm leaving to go take ours apart..... be back with pics.
 
Originally posted by abdelsol@Jun 17 2005, 06:41 PM
I guess I will be disassembling a 4040.

Do all the cross drills look the same size?

You lost me, inner springs on the 3030?

Doesn't the inner plunger (silver & annodized) fit into the block oxided sleeve.

I'm leaving to go take ours apart..... be back with pics.
[post=513433]Quoted post[/post]​

Yes, the crossdrilled holes all look the same size, the difference between the black sleeves is the inner diameters.

What I meant about the inner springs is, if you look at the last pic I posted, there is a small spring inside the larger spring, that sits on the tops of the spools.


Also to note, the first one I posted is from a 92, and the second is from a 90, though I think they are all of the same breeding as long as they are of the same body style.
 
this will be the prop valve thread to end all...
who's going to put together the article on this for all to reference in the future?

anyway, I guess it would make sense that the numbers refer to the springs and not the size of the orifices.... but I guess I'm still confused as to why there would be a 30/30 and a 40/40 seems like they would both do the same thing because they would have matched springs

92b16vx.... what car did the 30/40 that you pulled come out of?
 
weird, i just looked at my prop valve on my crx and it says 2040. its a 91 crx si with 4 wheel disc stock. so what does this mean? what actually changes when you change to a different prop valve? im thinking i might want to go with a 40/40 but im not sure. i want to fully understand this.
 
isnt the spring and piston in the the prop valve just for the knee point? ive read that it doesnt actually proportion the pressure until a set pressure(ie: even split with light braking, but proportioned during hard braking).

ive always thought the numbers had to do with the orifice size. :shrug2:
 
My thought are the same as yours. Split the presure to a point determined by the outer spring and then a shift allowing more to the fronts by the second spring (or less to rear?). I need one of them in my hands, apart and will study the motion determine spring rates, ect. I design stuff similar for a living so it should be easy enough.

So far the orifices apear to be the same.

I have promised to tear my 4040 apart for another comparision. Once that happens 92b 16vx will compare notes.

Sorry guys I haven't been able to the job yet. These last few days have been utter chaos. Daughter went temp insane, wedding invitations (yes, me), argueing with a customer, different daughter had camera, 2 sons left for Florida last night and had to pack/shrink wrap truck.... TOO MUCH DRAMA!!!!

I am going to try again this evening.
 
If I had known the guy at the yard was just going to let me have them so I could see how they worked, I wouldv'e grabbed em all :lol but I didn't till I went to leave, and then it was too late to go get more. There is a 2530, a couple more 3030, and another 3040. I was thinking the numbers were related to the sizings, but since the inside of each one are the same on both sides, it has to be the springs, but I still can't see what would cause any more fluid under pressure to go where with them being equal top and bottom.
 
Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jun 20 2005, 08:23 AM
If I had known the guy at the yard was just going to let me have them so I could see how they worked, I wouldv'e grabbed em all :lol but I didn't till I went to leave, and then it was too late to go get more. There is a 2530, a couple more 3030, and another 3040. I was thinking the numbers were related to the sizings, but since the inside of each one are the same on both sides, it has to be the springs, but I still can't see what would cause any more fluid under pressure to go where with them being equal top and bottom.
[post=514266]Quoted post[/post]​



Without playing with it my guess is the outer sleeve equalizes the pressure and flows to front and rear. then when the pressure builds the inner plunger move increasing the flow to the fronts (or restricts the flow to the rears).

Guessing at this point.

Do you have a scale available to you. That and a caliper and you can determine spring rates.
 
supposedly, the fronts are NEVER regulated, but rather fluid is taken away from the rears...
 
Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jun 20 2005, 08:44 AM
Unfortunely no I do not :( Hoping spark interest in someone that does :)
[post=514270]Quoted post[/post]​



once I get this one apart, if you send me your shit...lol I have a scale in 1/10 ounces... and a vernier caliper...
 
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