b20 build questions

[97hatch]

Ok im geting ready to build my b20b from my crx. Im thinking of 11:1-11.5:1 compresion some eagle rods since i shouldnt have to wory about them breaking since i wont be reving to 90 bizilion R's. might just spring for some crowers. i have a gude p&p head now with stock parts Im going to go with crower springs and retainers and mostlikely some supertech valves. i cant decide on a set of 403s or 404s.


build

b20b
11.0:1-11.5:1
eagle rods
crower springs and retainers
crower 403 or 404s
supertech valves
and allready have a gude p&p head

Questions do you think that i sould sleve the block or use a blockguard. I dont want to use a block guard i would like to keep the stock block if you all think that i will be allright. also i cant decide on a set of cams what is every ones opnion on cams and thw block will i be fine or should i do some thing about it.

 

[MikeBergy]

Sleeve. Those blockguards are trash.

 

[97hatch]

i know they are
do you even think that a all motor car needs to be sleved

 

[jamesA]

Originally posted by 97hatch@Aug 15 2004, 01:33 AM
i know they are
do you even think that a all motor car needs to be sleved

[post=377044]Quoted post[/post]​

Yes.

 

[97CTR]

with your 84mm sleeves that you already have on your b20 it is not necessary to sleeve. As it is not necessary to sleeve for all motor, only if you want some more displacement. You will be fine with your stock block.

If your crx is going to be a street car go with 403's, if it is a track car go with 404's and a little more compression.

 

[97hatch]

why wouldnt i want 404s for a daily driver.
i drive it every day but this is the status of the car.

all interior removed
heat and all heater accesories
the only thing i have in the car is my seats and a hallow dash have removed lots of unwanted plastic from it.


note i have another car to drive when i dont want to drive it.
are 404s going to make it un streetable?
and you think that i can go with like 12.0:1 on pump gas i will probaly be tuning with uberdata. I may Spring for hondata

 

[Bl6CRX]

definitly can run 12:1 on pump gas with that fuel mang/tunning

 

[MikeBergy]

Originally posted by 97CTR@Aug 15 2004, 08:31 AM
with your 84mm sleeves that you already have on your b20 it is not necessary to sleeve. As it is not necessary to sleeve for all motor, only if you want some more displacement. You will be fine with your stock block.

If your crx is going to be a street car go with 403's, if it is a track car go with 404's and a little more compression.

[post=377088]Quoted post[/post]​

The stock sleeves on the b20 are garbage. Sure, you can run the stock one if you don't plan on making a ton of horsepower. NA cars make their power from air flow and extremely high cylinder pressures, similar to turbocharged cars except the cylinder pressure comes from a higher CR. i would not trust those sleeves if I was planning on making more than 220whp or so. The b20 stroke will put too much side force on the cylinder walls, and the open deck design of the block will allow for too much movement of the cylinders at high loads. Sleeving and honing a block will run you around 800, and that isn't a lot of cash for insurance that the sleeves will not move. But it's your block, not mine.

 

[97hatch]

ok sleves are in the budget now will eagle rods hold upto like 7800 or should i get some crowers. and as far as the cams go what should i go with 403 or 404 i just cant decide if you all think that 12:1 is definatly doable with pump gas 93 to be exact. how high can i go on pump gas and do you think that i should be considering a Intake Manifold and a throtlebody had pondred ITBs a do it your self set up but i just cant decide

 

[Bl6CRX]

on 93 with good tunning you could do 13:1 my buddies car ran with no detonation on 12:8:1 with piss 91 cali gas tuned hondata, you'll definitly need either a tb/im or ITBs, my vote goes for ITBs, but your pocket might not

 

[StyleTEG]

There is no streetable non-vtec cam that would benifit from 12:1 compression or higher.

Anything higher than 11.6:1 on 404s is already under-caming. You can't go past the 405a cam with out doing some MAJOR work to the head to fit larger lobes.

The 404s are extremely daily drivable =)

 

[97hatch]

amen i ran a 13.8 all motor with a ported head and a set of ls cams

 

[MikeBergy]

Originally posted by pheonixb16aguy@Aug 16 2004, 02:40 PM
why does everyone think that the b20's are weak ?? me and jamie (90accord) have a friend or an accuantinse that has a bone stock b20 block with a bone stock b16a head just has itr intake mani, cai, exhaust and a afc, ohh and a 100 shot wet/dry direct port nitrous from NOS. anyways long story short he runs high 11's low 12's and has a bone stock block ?? so if you plan on going faster than that you need to build your block, also his car is a dailey drive runs .. 13.9 all motor and hit high 11's when its cold out

[post=377589]Quoted post[/post]​

The key point you just pointed out was that it is a stock block. What's the cr for that block? 9.6:1 IF he has the jdm b20z, which I doubt, but it's possible. That is not a high cr. I am guessing those times are with the nitrous on, right? I'm not saying that the b20 sleeves aren't adequate, I'm just saying that if you are looking at high compression pistons as an upgrade, which I am assuming because the thread starter asked about 404's and those need high cr pistons to see good numbers, then the cylinder pressures will be too high for the stock sleeves, and they will eventually vibrate enough to cause the wall to crack. It may not happen eventually, but it will happen. The eagle rods will be fine past 7800 rpm, just get the reciprocating assembly balanced and blueprinted and you should be golden. And get a vtec oil pump as well, the last thing you want to do is spin a bearing.

 

[97hatch]

b20 and ITR oil pumps are the same part number and no my 13.8 is all motor no nitrous.

ok thanks for the input im going with custom 12.3:1 pistons
and 404s no sleves i think it will be fine if tuned properly
i ran in to a local that has a crvtec runing 14lbs boost on a stock block and he is doing fine has had it for a year and a half it is his daily driver and he races it on wed and fri nights all summer

 

[StyleTEG]

Originally posted by 97hatch@Aug 17 2004, 04:52 PM
b20 and ITR oil pumps are the same part number and no my 13.8 is all motor no nitrous.

ok thanks for the input im going with custom 12.3:1 pistons
and 404s no sleves i think it will be fine if tuned properly
i ran in to a local that has a crvtec runing 14lbs boost on a stock block and he is doing fine has had it for a year and a half it is his daily driver and he races it on wed and fri nights all summer

[post=378171]Quoted post[/post]​

Have fun under camming your engine and making no power up top

 

[MikeBergy]

Originally posted by 97hatch@Aug 17 2004, 02:52 PM
b20 and ITR oil pumps are the same part number and no my 13.8 is all motor no nitrous.

ok thanks for the input im going with custom 12.3:1 pistons
and 404s no sleves i think it will be fine if tuned properly
i ran in to a local that has a crvtec runing 14lbs boost on a stock block and he is doing fine has had it for a year and a half it is his daily driver and he races it on wed and fri nights all summer

[post=378171]Quoted post[/post]​

I was actually questioning pheonixguy about his 11s, 13.8 isn't bad, but seems a little sluggish for 2 liters in a crx. 12.3 seems a bit high, but still doable.

StyleTeg, I agree, 11.3mm intake side lift seems to not be enough to take advantage of high cr. You are going to choke the top end. but you'll still make some good power, and a better setup is just a cam swap away down the road.

 

[StyleTEG]

Originally posted by MikeBergy@Aug 18 2004, 05:31 AM
StyleTeg, I agree, 11.3mm intake side lift seems to not be enough to take advantage of high cr. You are going to choke the top end. but you'll still make some good power, and a better setup is just a cam swap away down the road.

[post=378445]Quoted post[/post]​

Unfortunetly there isn't much available beyond the 404's for the NA non-vtecs. Unless he plans on doing a vtec head swap at some point, or doing some MAJOR head modifications to fit the 405's (12mm lift, which still may be under camming, I would have to check), there is no other option.

 

[B16]

Originally posted by revolution8k+Aug 15 2004, 12:06 AM-->

97hatch

@Aug 15 2004, 01:33 AM
i know they are
do you even think that a all motor car needs to be sleved

[post=377044]Quoted post[/post]​

Yes.

[post=377060]Quoted post[/post]​

actually, no.


talk to calesta, he ran 12.6:1 CR in his b20 on stock sleeves, sleeves held up just fine for 30k miles i think it was until he toasted his rings . people who dont trust them have never experienced them. i would talk to those who have actually gone this route.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by B16@Aug 18 2004, 01:06 PM
actually, no.

talk to calesta, he ran 12.6:1 CR in his b20 on stock sleeves, sleeves held up just fine for 30k miles i think it was until he toasted his rings . people who dont trust them have never experienced them. i would talk to those who have actually gone this route.

[post=378636]Quoted post[/post]​

45k miles... and the rings were fine- I just blew one of them apart on a mechanical overrev.