What Turbo To Get?
- Thread starter SolReaver
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HondasHateMe
Senior Member
yeah...fuck a bunch of math.
prawjEKt Cx
Senior Member
i was backing up pissed off sol's theory that larger turbos create more of an airmass at a lower psi
also, the rod/stroke ratio with b18b's is awful. its not meant for high rpm's, which means it will take a built motor to rev above 7k consistently. basically, b18b blocks are less efficient at higher rpm's and cause more heat and less power. this is a problem a lot of ls/vtec guys have when consistently revving unbuilt bottom ends above 7-8k.
prawjEKt Cx
Senior Member
how is the gsr so good up on top end, it's r/s is only 1.58 compared to the ls's 1.54
GSR head flows a lot better, has higher compression, has better high rpm cam lobes, and like chet said it has a better r/s ratio which leads to it revving higher. It has a good top end- but that brings us back to the original arguement- which is more desireable for a turbo motor?
Silver94Teg
Member
The LS. Lower CR, no vtec (so no long duration lobes to screw with the turbo), etc. I think the argument originally started over which transmission was better for boost, the ls or gsr. There's no question that the ls ENGINE is better for boost. If you want to rev-high, then the gsr is better. Personally i'd rather have torque on tap. 
this is wrong...gsr cams have excellent lobes for turbo. type r cams are too big, but gsr cams are used in most of the cars around here. the ls bottom end is weaker, and is more prone to spun rod bearings. plus its rod/ratio is poor and causes extreme heat and isn't as efficient.
fact: gsr motors make more torque compared to ls motors in the lower rpm's and more power up top.
so again, you're wrong. i'm not sure who spreads this misinformation, but its simply not true, and if you need anymore proof look at the yellow crx lining up vs lisa kubo. not only is he running a turbo gsr setup, but another guy i know has put down over 500hp and over 350 torque with a turbo nitrous setup. ls motors wouldn't touch these numbers on similar setups.
so basically, the ls motor needs to be built that much more to achieve the same numbers...
its like starting with a weaker platform to achieve the same goals...and in the end its not cheaper and not more efficient.
but the GSR costs $2000 more than the LS initial cost.
take that 2 grand, get a block girdle to hold the bottom to hold the higher revs
port the head to flow similar to a vtec
get turbo cams.
that should do about 2 grand... maybe less.
and now, with this same inital cost- i don't see why the ls wont hold its own against a GSR. and to those of you in doubt- fucking bring it
djextremity
Senior Member
Because that imitation GSR, which is making the same power as the real GSR, will take to boost better than the GSR will. It is making the same power at lower compression also, which means lower octane fuel, and higher boost when turboed.
djextremity
Senior Member
lol
95_civicext
Junior Member
this is nuts!! but it is one of THE best threads i've seen on turbo yet. I've seen both ways (LS and GSR) with stock internals running at the track on the same boost (6-8psi) and run very close times. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the gsr always ran faster. now, i do have to say that driver skill has a lot to do with numbers at the track. I got issues of my own and it doesn't have to do with B-series at all. I'm buildin up a D16Z6. Its a lot harder to find good turbo parts for the lil D-series. but i'll be damned if i'm gonna fail to get my lil D to get into the 12's. It's gonna take a lot more money than building a B. oh, and BTW i agree with pissedoffsol on the turbo............ 60-1 is the way to go. L8z 
stock vs stock
gsr motors put down way more power.
ls motors run out of power at 6500...where as a gsr will make power to around 7800.
and the torque is virtually the same, with the gsr making slightly more.
posting one dyno chart you found over the internet is pointless, you don't know about the compression of both motors, the validity of either dyno, the person turning the wrenches, the temperature, other unlisted mods, and so on.
like i've said before, a gsr motor and gsr transmission will be the better platform to boost from. gsr bottom end is better, is designed for higher revs and has a better rod/stroke ratio. plus, gsr transmissions are infinitely better than the WEAK ls transmissions.
vtec also allows for more tuning and more overall power.
gsr motors put down way more power.
ls motors run out of power at 6500...where as a gsr will make power to around 7800.
and the torque is virtually the same, with the gsr making slightly more.
posting one dyno chart you found over the internet is pointless, you don't know about the compression of both motors, the validity of either dyno, the person turning the wrenches, the temperature, other unlisted mods, and so on.
like i've said before, a gsr motor and gsr transmission will be the better platform to boost from. gsr bottom end is better, is designed for higher revs and has a better rod/stroke ratio. plus, gsr transmissions are infinitely better than the WEAK ls transmissions.
vtec also allows for more tuning and more overall power.
In all reality, the ITR is the best platform. but its expensive as hell to boost. you need a sick tuner to not blow up.
what it comes down to in the end, is that dollar for dollar, an LS will hang with a gsr, if not be faster. there's a lot you can do with the 2 grand difference in initial cost to the LS to make it as good, if not better, than a stock GSR.
examples i said before-
z10 girlde- holds the bottom end for revs. - 300
port/polish the LS head - 300 ish depending on the shop, maybe even cheaper
sleeve the f00ker if you are that worried about r/s ratio - 1300
take the wife out for dinner in your faster than stock GSR turbo with the extra $100 you have left over.
r/s ratio is a bunch of talked about bullshit. there's chevy 350s with 1.4 r/s ratios revving to 9 grand.
My entire arguement, is dollar for dollar, NOTHING beats an LS/T as far as power output (n20 excluded).
If i can run .2 slower in a stock ls with the same turbo kit as a stock gsr - I will be happy knowing that moron in the gsr spent 2 grand to beat me by .2 in the 1/4. to me, its not worth it. It's like going N/A. $5000 later in cams, head work, and stuff, and you shaved a second off your time. it's a waste of fucking money
what it comes down to in the end, is that dollar for dollar, an LS will hang with a gsr, if not be faster. there's a lot you can do with the 2 grand difference in initial cost to the LS to make it as good, if not better, than a stock GSR.
examples i said before-
z10 girlde- holds the bottom end for revs. - 300
port/polish the LS head - 300 ish depending on the shop, maybe even cheaper
sleeve the f00ker if you are that worried about r/s ratio - 1300
take the wife out for dinner in your faster than stock GSR turbo with the extra $100 you have left over.
r/s ratio is a bunch of talked about bullshit. there's chevy 350s with 1.4 r/s ratios revving to 9 grand.
My entire arguement, is dollar for dollar, NOTHING beats an LS/T as far as power output (n20 excluded).
If i can run .2 slower in a stock ls with the same turbo kit as a stock gsr - I will be happy knowing that moron in the gsr spent 2 grand to beat me by .2 in the 1/4. to me, its not worth it. It's like going N/A. $5000 later in cams, head work, and stuff, and you shaved a second off your time. it's a waste of fucking money
djextremity
Senior Member
No Brian, I meant lower octane gas until you boost the engine. The main premise of that post was before you boost it, except right at the end there.
