Why do Muslims hate us ?

[Citizen_Insane]

Originally posted by Cashizslick+Feb 8 2005, 02:59 PM-->

driverunknown

@Feb 8 2005, 02:01 PM

Their hatred for us was inevitable, whether we fuck with them or not.
Those radicals have a lot of similarities with Der Fuhrer. Damn.

[post=458072]Quoted post[/post]​

Yes, they do have a lot in common with the fuhrer. One could argue from a religeous standpoint that they are another group of people doing the will of Satan - to destroy the Jews.

- If you ever read 'Mein Kampf' you will see how Hitler thought he was the anti christ - thats why he wanted to conquer parts of africa and the middle east (Rommel in the Desert). The anti christ is supposed to sit on the throne in the middle east . . . . . thats what Hitler was trying to do.

I'm sorry, but this is a VERY misguided thing to say. You are completely wrong, in fact, most of you are wrong, although, I dont want to start a fight, I think you guys are acutaly covering some good material, so don't let this turn into a hate thread. They don't hate us *BECAUSE* of their religion, they use their religion as an *EXCUSE* to hate us. Radical muslims don't really have anything against people that arn't Islamic (well, they do, but they dont wish them dead). What they hate is how the West has been pushing them arround for the last 200 years. The british controlled that part of the world for a long time, and now the US has a lot of influence there. They hate the west because in comparisson, they have always been the underdog. You don't see them proclaiming that they need to kill the Japanese (who are Shinto, Buhdist, and christian mostly) or Indians (even though there is a lot of bad blood between Hindus and Muslims). NO. They don't hate those countries because those countries have not been forcing them to do their bidding for the last few hundred years. They hate the west for solely political reasons and they are using their religion as a scape goat. Not only does it give them "devine right" but it makes great rally speaches and is very convincing to trick people into thinking that they are doing god's work.

Now, about your Hitler analogy. Hitler was a straight up anti-semite. He hated Jews for being jews, not because they did something to him, but because they were someone to blame for his shortcomings. He truly had no reason for hating Jews, he just did. This is NOT understandable, respectable, or justifiable. **HOWEVER** The radical Islamic hatred of the wes is understandable, respectable, or justifiable. It is. Because I can understand it, and many other americans can understand it. Its not because we share similar views, its because we understand why they could begin to think this way. I don't hate Jews, and cannot relate to Hitler, and I dont think any other non-anti-semite could justify what Hitler did. There in lies the difference between the Islamic Hatred of the West and the Nazi's ideals of Hitler.

I'm sorry for the long post, but you guys need to see the other side some time. Pleas read it all, I know its long (and maybe has incorrect grammar and spelling), but I think I make a valid point. Don't hate, try to understand.

Peace

-Kai

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by ktanaka+Feb 8 2005, 09:41 PM-->

They don't hate us *BECAUSE* of their religion, they use their religion as an *EXCUSE* to hate us. Radical muslims don't really have anything against people that arn't Islamic (well, they do, but they dont wish them dead). What they hate is how the West has been pushing them arround for the last 200 years. The british controlled that part of the world for a long time, and now the US has a lot of influence there. They hate the west because in comparisson, they have always been the underdog.

Not to hate, but you obviously dont know much about radical muslims, so read Steve's first post, and his last up to this point.

The do hate us because of the fact that we are NOT Islamic. To them, it is Allah's call to rid the earth of virmin like us (it says so explicitly in the Koran).
They hate us because of who we are. Dont argue that proven facts are wrong >End of discussion.

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 8 2005, 09:41 PM
Now, about your Hitler analogy. Hitler was a straight up anti-semite. He hated Jews for being jews, not because they did something to him, but because they were someone to blame for his shortcomings. He truly had no reason for hating Jews, he just did. This is NOT understandable, respectable, or justifiable.

In this part, i cant really tell if you criticized my argument or not, so ill continue it.

Hitler and the Nazi Party have a lot of similarities to Radical Muslims with regard to their hatred of the Jews.

Hitler wanted to exterminate all of the jews, and the Radical muslim's in countries surrounding Israel have swarn to "Drive the Jews into the Sea".

-> its interesting how such different groups could hate the Jews for no reason . . . .

ktanaka@Feb 8 2005, 09:41 PM
You don't see them proclaiming that they need to kill the Japanese (who are Shinto, Buhdist, and christian mostly) or Indians. They don't hate those countries because those countries have not been forcing them to do their bidding for the last few hundred years.

In response to the above

2 proper nouns: Pakistan & India

 

[SlushboxTeggy]

in all honesty, in of the beginning high school i was an extremist. i hated everyone that wasnt like me just for the fact that they werent. in recent years i have become almost the opposite. i dont hate anyone unless i personally know your an asshole. all extremists whether christian or muslim or whatever should kill themselves and make the world a better place. if you hate me and dont even know me you can fuck off.

 

[GSRCRXsi]

i found the google ad at the bottom funny

 

[Citizen_Insane]

Originally posted by Cashizslick+Feb 8 2005, 09:24 PM-->

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 8 2005, 09:41 PM
They don't hate us *BECAUSE* of their religion, they use their religion as an *EXCUSE* to hate us. Radical muslims don't really have anything against people that arn't Islamic (well, they do, but they dont wish them dead). What they hate is how the West has been pushing them arround for the last 200 years. The british controlled that part of the world for a long time, and now the US has a lot of influence there. They hate the west because in comparisson, they have always been the underdog.

Not to hate, but you obviously dont know much about radical muslims, so read Steve's first post, and his last up to this point.

The do hate us because of the fact that we are NOT Islamic. To them, it is Allah's call to rid the earth of virmin like us (it says so explicitly in the Koran).
They hate us because of who we are. Dont argue that proven facts are wrong >End of discussion.

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 8 2005, 09:41 PM
Now, about your Hitler analogy. Hitler was a straight up anti-semite. He hated Jews for being jews, not because they did something to him, but because they were someone to blame for his shortcomings. He truly had no reason for hating Jews, he just did. This is NOT understandable, respectable, or justifiable.

In this part, i cant really tell if you criticized my argument or not, so ill continue it.

Hitler and the Nazi Party have a lot of similarities to Radical Muslims with regard to their hatred of the Jews.

Hitler wanted to exterminate all of the jews, and the Radical muslim's in countries surrounding Israel have swarn to "Drive the Jews into the Sea".

-> its interesting how such different groups could hate the Jews for no reason . . . .

ktanaka

@Feb 8 2005, 09:41 PM
You don't see them proclaiming that they need to kill the Japanese (who are Shinto, Buhdist, and christian mostly) or Indians. They don't hate those countries because those countries have not been forcing them to do their bidding for the last few hundred years.

In response to the above

2 proper nouns: Pakistan & India

[post=458362]Quoted post[/post]​

Did you even read my post???????? Read the 1st paragraph again, I explain why they hate us, and NO it is not because we are different. They think we are wrong, yes, but the basis for their hatred is politcal, not religious. (Although, it has been TWISED into religousness)

I am well aware of the Pakistani - Indian Conflict, but the same people in the middle-east talking about exterminating americans are NOT the same ones that want to nuke India. I was speaking only of those extremists in the Saudi Arabia, Jordan, area.

I think I misunderstood the Hitler reference. Yes, many Muslims hate Jews, hey even ones I've met have said they Dislike Jews. HOWEVER - this also goes back to my politics controling religion theory. They hate them because Isreal was created from THEIR land. At the end of WWII when the Isreali state was created, the land used to create that state was taken from Islamic countries who were pissed because their peope were displaced by the newly created Jewish state. Yes, they sight references in the Koran, but the basis of all their "hatreds" are politcal and social. They just use their religion as an Excuse to hate. Any religion can be twisted in such a way, as it decrees the death of those that don't follow it. How about the Crusades, when Catholics felt that it was their god decreed duty to conquer the holy land. I would say that killing in the name of the Bible would be pretty hypocritical when there is a commandment saying "Thou shalt not kill." It does't say, "You should avoid killing, most of the time." This is the way religious ideas get warped by either those that are very wise (and use religion to bend others to their political wishes) or very foolish (and misinterpret the texts).

Rethink the REAL reason they hate us. It really has nothing to do with Isalm and everything to do with how they have been treated by the west in the past.

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 8 2005, 11:43 PM
Did you even read my post???????? Read the 1st paragraph again, I explain why they hate us, and NO it is not because we are different. They think we are wrong, yes, but the basis for their hatred is politcal, not religious. (Although, it has been TWISED into religousness)

Rethink the REAL reason they hate us. It really has nothing to do with Isalm and everything to do with how they have been treated by the west in the past.

[post=458401]Quoted post[/post]​

You do not know ANYTHING about islamic extreemists and you do not have an argument.

Read:

(Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."

All non muslims are disbelievers
- yep, this sure sounds like polotics and not religeon {/sarcasm}

(Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

- we, non muslims, are the 'unbelievers'
. . . again, there is NO religeon here either {/sarcasm}

More verses to prove my point

(Koran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."

(Koran 22: 19-22) " But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."

^Here, we are the 'disbelievers'^


If actual verses from the Koran fail to convince you that Islamic radicals' hatred of us is not political and is obviously Religeous then i dont know what will.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

BUT THOSE ARE NOT THE REASON THEY HATE US!!!!!!!

They'res shit like that in the bible too, and you don't see christians going arround and killing people that arn't christian.

I know devout Muslims, and no they don't want me dead. Also, where did you get that translation of the Koran???? Or do you speek Aribic? There are many ways those passages could have been translated, or skewed. Read my previous post about skewing religious ideas. The Koran is a set of works by many authors, just like the bible. There are places where it says to value life and cherish it. It is all in the interpretation, and I'm saying that extremests don't like our politics, so they interpret the Koran in a different way than other Muslims.

Also - If they are supposed to hate all non-Muslims, why dont they attack the Japanese, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or one of the many contries in Africa. Those places are just as not-Muslim as you or I. The reason they hate us is because we have treated them like shit for 200 years. Thast the reason.


"Six days may work be done, but on the seventh day it will become something holy to YOU, a sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah. Anybody doing work on it will be put to death." - Exodus 35:1-3

Um...right out of the bible, yet you don't see many people getting killed for doing a little extra work on the weekends. What I'm trying to prove, is that there is irrational shit in all religous texts that gets ignored by most people. The Christian religion (and I'm sure all religions) has fucked up shit, but it doesn't make all christians killing psychopathes. They are just using bits and pieces of the Koran to support their side (fighting western politics) and ignoring the parts that talk about peace and helping thy neighbor.

Also, who ever said you couldn't be a Muslim by conversion, you are flat out wrong. Malcom X was a recognised Muslim and even made the trip to Mecca where he was welcomed with open arms, even though he was brought up baptist. The point ofislam was for it to spread, so everyone could share in their enlightenment, which means that they are very supportive of conversion.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

I found a good letter written by a Muslim about Islam, you should read it.

Dear Ms. Jennifer Rast,

I came across your web site while traversing some links on the Internet and read the following article just out of curiosity. http://www.contenderministries.org/islam/quest4thewest.php

I like your idea of learning more about Islam. It is certainly a good step towards building mutual & cordial relationship between 1.4 billion Muslims and 2 billion Christians.

I also wanted to point out to you that you probably didn't read Quran yourself; Not even the Sura (chapter) that you quoted a verse from. You probably didn't even try to read the background (context) of that Sura either. I am sure that you, as a devout Christian & follower of Bible, understand this very well that when the divine verses are taken out of context, they can be easily misunderstood and may be very misleading. Just like one can mistakenly infer from Bible that Jesus [May peace be upon him] was alcoholic (May God forgive me for writing this as I believe in him as a true prophet of God), similarly, one can infer so much wrongly from Quran if verses are taken out of context.

Please read the complete Sura 9 (especially the very next verse 9:6) and then you may also want to read the background of those verses. http://www.orst.edu/groups/msa/quran/quran/9.html

Islam is NOT a violent relgion. True, it doesn't ask you to turn the other cheek when someone slaps you. It allows you to slap your enemy back (without transgression). It, however, recommends that you forgive. The mercy that Prophet Muhammad showed to his bitter enemies when he conquered Mecca is simply an example of how to treat the enemy when they are week, or throw arms & ask for asylum.

You may also want to read more in Quran as to how Quran prohibits killings of Women, children, farmers, and even cutting down the plants & trees, even during war.

Anyway, I am not trying to preach to you. You are a good person and were created by the same God Who created me. We call Him Allah (in Arabic). You probably didn't know that Christian Arabs also call Him Allah. The point is that if you intend to convert muslims to your faith, why do you think it is wrong for them to try to convert West to Islam? Have you ever thought what you would be if you were born in a typical muslim family? We are all brain-washed so much in our childhood that we are Muslims or Christians by birth and not by choice. I invite you to get a good English translation of Quran and read through it yourself with all the background. You may want to get some videos like "The Message", or "Islam: The Empire of Faith" or any of the videos of "Ahmad Deedaat" if you really want to convince yourself that you are Christian by choice and not just by birth. Below, you may find some of Ahmad Deedat's articles. http://www.geocities.com/maa_imran/deedat.html

I would like to conclude my email by saying that the purpose of mankind should be to live in mutual harmony with respect for other religions. In a society where Gays & Lesbians issues, abortion related issues, moral decadence and several other threats are rising, you will find Islam & muslims on your side - shoulder to shoulder; promoting & holding on to the same good values that you (and we) cherish so much.

Best regards.

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 9 2005, 01:10 AM
They'res shit like that in the bible too, and you don't see christians going arround and killing people that arn't christian.

"Six days may work be done, but on the seventh day it will become something holy to YOU, a sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah. Anybody doing work on it will be put to death." - Exodus 35:1-3

[post=458447]Quoted post[/post]​

You dont know anything about Christianity either.


That verse was for the Ancient Israelites (i.e. Jews), and ONLY applied to them while they were in teh desert for 40 years. After leaving Egypt as Slaves, they had a "theocracy" form of government . . . .

Later in the Bibile, these "sacrimental" laws are abolished - but u knew that anyways didnt u?


> The bible and the koran are very different, if you are still confused, bring up some more verses from the Bible and i help u understand them.

**if you open a book (any book) to the middle and just start reading, it will seem strange and you wont understand whats going on**
_ the same is true of the Bible, and its sad when people take one verse out of context (since they obviously havent read it).

 

[Celerity]

The Koran is lead to translation like all other ancient texts - And there are those Muslims that choose to translate it into peace, and by doing so are lead to peace.

happy marriage, dignified and respectful children and overall a good impact on the earth and it's inhabitants can be found in Islam.

However, Those aren't the Muslims that hate us. The muslims in question are those that are terrorists, use civilian targets, and for the most part occupy the Middle East.

Mohammed down at the 7-11 didn't declare war against the western aggressor.

An Ayatollah is a religious figure that means as much to the people of Islam as the Pope does to Christians / Catholics (And by the way, Christians are the same as Catholics - Get over it ) The Ayatollah is regarded in his great wisdom (Spending his entire life dedicated to the Koran) to translate for the people, in a non-political fashion what the Koran tells the people of Islam to do. Khomeini wasn't trying to raise morale of a country in a war - Khomeini didn't care about world affairs. Hell, in World Affairs after the shah was gone, he ruined a relationship with traders that would have put Iran before Saudi Arabia - His opinions weren't popular at that time !

But his is not to consider the events of the modern world. His was only to translate the Koran - And nothing more. And his translations are regarded as perfect.

Even if we were to stop supporting Israel, Even if we were to dole the Palestine back to Palestinians, Even if we were to welcome with open arms the fundamentals of Islam - They would STILL hate us.

The point of this thread is to show people that the US is not the bad guy. To show you that Bush's administration didn't ruin our popularity in the global market - That infact we have no chance of ever being liked on the global scale until we fail.

That is the only thing that will make the world like Americans again. If we fail. If our economy goes bust (like Russia) if we lose a war in the baltics (Hey... like Russia too ! ) Or if we have some sort of major civil uprising and complete melt down (Like Rome).

It's about Status. And Status will make sense in further writings. I'll show you how the world is a macro-chasm of ourselves. You'll see that your personal problems, relationships, love and life are the exact same for the entire world.

I'll post it up tonight.

-> Steve

 

[Celerity]

As well, and this is important enough for it's own post,

That the hatred of the US by US citizens is just like the hatred and low-self esteem that we feel about ourselves. They are the same thing.

-> Steve

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by Celerity@Feb 9 2005, 08:30 AM
Even if we were to stop supporting Israel, Even if we were to dole the Palestine back to Palestinians, Even if we were to welcome with open arms the fundamentals of Islam - They would STILL hate us.

The point of this thread is to show people that the US is not the bad guy. To show you that Bush's administration didn't ruin our popularity in the global market - That infact we have no chance of ever being liked on the global scale until we fail.

[post=458483]Quoted post[/post]​

Some food for thought,

Although most people reading this probably dont take the Bible sersiously, ill say it anyways. Eventhough He (Jesus) performed miracles, healed sick people, and showed the world God's love, He was still rejected.


The world for the most part, rejects Christ as being the son of God. America (by large) is still a God Fearin Nation (our money says "in God We Trust", etc). Although our country reaches out to help other countries (Iraq, Tsunami affected Places, Boznia, Afghanistan, etc) we are STILL hated and dispised by the rest of the world.

> maybe this is why the world seems to be at odds with us.

 

[SlushboxTeggy]

i guess i wont understand why someone could hate you simply because of religion. even as i watched the world trade burn a fall from a couple of blocks from my house, i could not bring myself to hate an entire people. and mind you that i didnt know whether my father was in one of those building either. i dont consider myself better than them because this is the way i see the world, but i would like to see the world from their point of view because it just seems unimaginable to me.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

If they are supposed to hate all non-Muslims, why dont they attack the Japanese, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or one of the many contries in Africa. Those places are just as not-Muslim as you or I?

--Since you won't answer to all of my post, I guess I have to break it down for you guys.

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 9 2005, 11:15 AM
If they are supposed to hate all non-Muslims, why dont they attack the Japanese, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or one of the many contries in Africa. Those places are just as not-Muslim as you or I?

--Since you won't answer to all of my post, I guess I have to break it down for you guys.

[post=458537]Quoted post[/post]​

y0 dawg, lemme br3Ak !t DoWN 4 ya.

Since you obviously forgot, the Afghanies and the Russians had a lil bout a few years back . . . . . The US backed the Afghan Insurgents and supplied them with Stinger Missles and M16s

 

[Citizen_Insane]

Nice, you are getting really good at missing the WHOLE FUCKING POINT!

I am quite well aware of the Russian - Afgahani war. It was then that the US provided the funding for Osama Bin Laden and trained him and his troops in gorilla warfare.

You are dodging the question again. Muslims don't hate Russians, even though they were in a little war back then.

**Respond only to this part:

****If they hate all non-Muslims, then why don't they act against all of them instead of just America??? This is the question I'm getting at.****

The war between Afghanistan and Russia had NOTHING to do with religion so it has no bearing on this argument. Please come up with rebuttles that make sense next time.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

Celerity - I would just like to say, that I hate america for its own good. I would desperitely like to see it become a better place. That is why I rag on it. I am often so frusterated with the way people act however, that I feel that I can't do anything to change what is already occuring. Please realize that its out of love that I hate. There are things I would like to change that I feel would make America a great place, an even BETTER place than it is already so that everyone here can live a happy and fufilling life.

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 9 2005, 11:52 AM
**Respond only to this part:

****If they hate all non-Muslims, then why don't they act against all of them instead of just America??? This is the question I'm getting at.****

[post=458549]Quoted post[/post]​

The muslims took over most of Europe after the Roman Empire collapsed, and Charles "the hammer" Martel was the one responsible for their defeat.

Just because this happened in the year 0711 does not mean that radical muslims now are any different than they were then - so lets hear none of that jargon.

The Muslims attacked then because they had the power to launch a full scale invasion of another country, now they dont, so they resort to terrorism.


I thought you knew about all this.

 

[Celerity]

Originally posted by ktanaka@Feb 9 2005, 11:52 AM
I am quite well aware of the Russian - Afgahani war. It was then that the US provided the funding for Osama Bin Laden and trained him and his troops in gorilla warfare.


**Respond only to this part:

****If they hate all non-Muslims, then why don't they act against all of them instead of just America??? This is the question I'm getting at.****

The war between Afghanistan and Russia had NOTHING to do with religion so it has no bearing on this argument. Please come up with rebuttles that make sense next time.

[post=458549]Quoted post[/post]​

That war had everything to do with religion. From the Crusades on up. To this day, the Muslims hate Russia worse than they do the US - And in Soviet Georgia and western USSR, Muslims have a strong hold setup where they will reject Russian law and rule because of religious differences. For one, the Russians have refuted God in an official tone.

And still, they aren't as hated as the US.

This brings me to my point... in essence you are "MISSING THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT". Watch the video in the end of my first post. You'll see that the hatred is a mix of everything. And moreso, this hatred will be brought to your front door step when I let you in on the little Eureka moment that I've had.

-> Steve

 

[Battle Pope]

holy crap, Steve's had a revelation! Quick! We need a midget... and a joint!