Another shooting... :(

[klyph]

Death is a greater deterrent than pain. We're talking about guns, not pepper spray.

 

[totalburnout]

Death is a greater deterrent than pain. We're talking about guns, not pepper spray.

Certainly didn't stop this young fellow who blew his own brains out.

Certainly didn't stop the terrorists of 9/11.

Certainly hasn't stopped the conflict for thousands of years in the Middle East.

Discuss.

 

[klyph]

...says the ignorant man.

You know nothing about me, yet you draw your own conclusions about me.

That's just what I gathered based on your explanation of your opinions. You said

All it takes is one poor decision or slip up to ruin the life of yourself or another one.

some loopy hick had his gun on his side, do you think I felt at all comfortable or safe? I was at the mercy of him should anything happen.

So your reasoning was based upon fear. I draw my conclusions about you from what you have said.

 

[klyph]

Certainly didn't stop this young fellow who blew his own brains out.

He was not afraid of getting shot because he knew no one would shoot him.

Certainly didn't stop the terrorists of 9/11.

Certainly hasn't stopped the conflict for thousands of years in the Middle East.

Discuss.

Religious motivations and the promise of an afterlife can easily supercede the fear of death. How is this related to the topic at hand?

 

[reckedracing]

ooh noes, the alaskan is laying it down

 

[eg6sir]

klyphnotes

 

[klyph]

Ian, I'm not trying to personally attack you, it's just that your opinions dont make any sense to me. I wish I could understand where you're coming from, but I don't.
Criminals in America will always have access to firearms. No amount of legislation is going to change that.
Limiting the access of law abiding citizens to the means of defending themselves only makes the problem worse.

 

[totalburnout]

Ian, I'm not trying to personally attack you, it's just that your opinions dont make any sense to me. I wish I could understand where you're coming from, but I don't.
Criminals in America will always have access to firearms. No amount of legislation is going to change that.
Limiting the access of law abiding citizens to the means of defending themselves only makes the problem worse.

Clearly there's no simple solution to the situation and I think thats where you have the hardest part understanding my arguments.

I accept that there's no clear solution, but feel that disarming the general populous is the best first step to controlling issues revolving around guns. The less the number of firearms there are out there in the country, the less the number of incidents revolving around firearms will occur.

Will this be an instantaneous solution? No, of course it will have to be implemented over years and a strategy to "round up" all the guns that are floating around throughout the country will need to be devised.

An ideal first step would be hitting up the caches of illegal guns that are being transported to the major cities and then distributed.

We're both advocating the same thing, a more peaceful community, but by different means. You feel that possessing guns will help control the people while I feel that it will increase the lawlessness. Since I feel this way, I feel the first step is to try to decrease the amount of firearms in the U.S. Why? The laws of probability say the odds of gun related issues will decrease when the number of guns are decreased.

 

[klyph]

Clearly there's no simple solution to the situation and I think thats where you have the hardest part understanding my arguments.

I accept that there's no clear solution, but feel that disarming the general populous is the best first step to controlling issues revolving around guns. The less the number of firearms there are out there in the country, the less the number of incidents revolving around firearms will occur.

Don't you understand that the majority of gun owners are not criminals? The "general populous" is not the problem here.

Will this be an instantaneous solution? No, of course it will have to be implemented over years and a strategy to "round up" all the guns that are floating around throughout the country will need to be devised.

Your solution involves 10's to 100's of years and billions of dollars spent on enforcement, not to mention a Constitutional Amendment. Mine is implementable in the here and now and for a miniscule fraction of the cost.

An ideal first step would be hitting up the caches of illegal guns that are being transported to the major cities and then distributed.

We supposedly are already doing this. And like you say, these guns are already illegal. We need to focus on enforcement of existing gun laws before we make any sort of radical legislation that more than likely won't get enforced either.

We're both advocating the same thing, a more peaceful community, but by different means. You feel that possessing guns will help control the people while I feel that it will increase the lawlessness. Since I feel this way, I feel the first step is to try to decrease the amount of firearms in the U.S. Why? The laws of probability say the odds of gun related issues will decrease when the number of guns are decreased.

I now understand a little better the point you were trying to make, but I still see it as unreasonably impossible.

 

[totalburnout]

He was not afraid of getting shot because he knew no one would shoot him.

Inadequate answer. He clearly did not fear death, he took his own life. Based upon this reasoning I would hypothesize that he was not worried whether or not he would be shot. Clearly he set out to go down in a "blaze of glory" in his own mind. His actions weren't about protecting himself but rather inflicting pain on others regardless of the cost.

This is the mindset that is so hard to control because its a "nothing to lose" mindset, which parallels the mindset of other "religious" terrorists.

Religious motivations and the promise of an afterlife can easily supercede the fear of death. How is this related to the topic at hand?

A religious motivation could be best described as an idea that one believes in tremendously. Religion need not be traditional, look at scientologists. White supremacists groups certainly fall into a category much like religion as well.

Why then would a nut case like this student not fit into his very own "religious" group that is willing to die for what he believes in.

The patriots were not necessarily religious but they were strong enough in their emotions and thoughts that they were willing to die for the cause.

My point being that fear of pain or death will not stop these people, therefore by you packing a weapon it may deter some that are less committed to waging war or death to varying degrees, BUT NOT ALL. This takes away the idea of gun activists that seem to think that guns will eliminate all situations like this terrible one that was just experienced.

Its my opinion that this situation would have happened regardless, the kid was "dead set" in his way.

 

[totalburnout]

"Your solution involves 10's to 100's of years and billions of dollars spent on enforcement, not to mention a Constitutional Amendment. Mine is implementable in the here and now and for a miniscule fraction of the cost."

Yes, while yours may be immediately implementable its temporary and can lead to significant more trouble than we have ever experienced. On the other hand it may cause an improvement, but how long will that improvement last? ...only until something else more deadly, innovative, or more untraceable then guns exists. This is what I mean by the situation escalating. There was a time when people used to kill one another with stones, then spears, then bows and arrows, then guns. You see where I'm going with this?

 

[totalburnout]

I appreciate your debate and arguments, even though its causing myself to commit even more mental resources, its helped myself ease my stress and take my mind off of my actual workload.

thanks.

 

[klyph]

Inadequate answer. He clearly did not fear death, he took his own life. Based upon this reasoning I would hypothesize that he was not worried whether or not he would be shot. Clearly he set out to go down in a "blaze of glory" in his own mind. His actions weren't about protecting himself but rather inflicting pain on others regardless of the cost.

And while his actions were uncontrollable, the pain and death he inflicted could have been greatly reduced had the students a means to defend themselves.

This is the mindset that is so hard to control because its a "nothing to lose" mindset, which parallels the mindset of other "religious" terrorists.

Exactly. The only way to fight a fire like this is with a greater fire.

A religious motivation could be best described as an idea that one believes in tremendously. Religion need not be traditional, look at scientologists. White supremacists groups certainly fall into a category much like religion as well.

Why then would a nut case like this student not fit into his very own "religious" group that is willing to die for what he believes in.

Not sure where you're going with this, but it doesn't seem to me that he was religiously motivated. He formulated a plan to exact vengeance on the people who he thouht had mistreated him. The reason he was able to do such a large amount of damage is because they were defenseless. He knew they were defenseless and this emboldened him.

The patriots were not necessarily religious but they were strong enough in their emotions and thoughts that they were willing to die for the cause.

My point being that fear of pain or death will not stop these people, therefore by you packing a weapon it may deter some that are less committed to waging war or death to varying degrees, BUT NOT ALL. This takes away the idea of gun activists that seem to think that guns will eliminate all situations like this terrible one that was just experienced.

So guns deter common criminals, but will not stop a religious fanatic from executing a jihad on you. So we shouldn't bother carrying guns?

Its my opinion that this situation would have happened regardless, the kid was "dead set" in his way.

There is no way of knowing. IMO if the kid knew he would immediately encounter armed resistance, he would not have done this.

 

[klyph]

I appreciate your debate and arguments, even though its causing myself to commit even more mental resources, its helped myself ease my stress and take my mind off of my actual workload.

thanks.

No problem. I enjoy a good debate to distract myself from the work that I'm supposed to be doing

 

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

wow i didnt get a good ol' bashing for stating my opinion??? i thought i woulda (no offence intended)

lol dont u love the drama llama when chicks arent involved.....it doesnt get brought to the gutter ^_^

 

[reckedracing]

so back to the topic
wiki has an interesting read on the subject
anyone else think the first victim was cheating on her boyfriend who was detained (wrongly from what i can tell) as a person of interest?
Virginia Tech massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cashizslick]

WTF does "Ismale Ax" mean?

Article said he had that tattooed on his arm.

 

[reckedracing]

The words "Ismail Ax" were found written on his arm in red ink, although a later report gave the spelling as "Ismale Ax" and stated the words were tattooed on his arm

sounds muslim to me

 

[Celerity]

I dunno man. There is SO much to this that makes no sense at all.

Who, at age 23 in 2007, ever wrote a screenplay about MR Brownstone ? What the fark ?

 

[Celerity]

sounds muslim to me

I wrote this in 3 times and editted it out because I Didn't want to cause shit.