Rally against war in Iraq

[Guy]

Ah, its good to be back after a bit.

Originally posted by GSRCRXsi@Sep 24 2005, 12:25 PM
on c-span right now. i cant watch this shit anymore. all it is, is a bunch of hippies crying about bush and how hes racist and god knows what else. these people are tools.

discuss

[post=559782]Quoted post[/post]​

Way to marginalize their position without actually providing any sort of real reasons as to why you are doing that.

Political affliations aside, It's sad to see these people organizing this event, logistics and all - with food, water, signs, and transportation, when there are currently (2) two disaster areas in the US in desperate need of help. If they really cared about The US, and about our "children" theyd put aside their hippy ways and drive down to NO or Texas to help out with the relief effort. Why? Hell, they could make a PR stunt out of it for all I care, Call it "AID BECUZ BUSH 1s T3H SUCK" - see if I notice.

But that would make sense now, wouldn't it?

Now, this is dumb to me, but for a very different reason. Unfortunately, in this era, the best way to get noticed is to get national media coverage. Logistically speaking, this is probably the least favorable time to be covered and have their point discussed. Fox, MSNBC, and CNN are too busy showing pictures of devestation and sighing to give this story and creedance beyond perhaps a small segment. I think their heart is in the right place, its just that they need to synch their mind to be more effective.

That's what people said about Reagan in the 1980s, and now he's regarded as one of the best US presidents ever. Food for thought. =)

You know, its probably the along the path of least resistance to simply disregard what you've said because its so... ignorant, but I can't find it in myself to do it. So, in an effort to be as... non harsh as possible, and to explore how you think, I'd appreciate it if you could explain exactly why Reagan will go down in history as "one of the best US presidents ever", balancing both his successes and failings. I understand it is a lot harder to support claims then to simply make them, but i'd think that if it is a claim worth making it is also one worth explaining.

 

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by GSRCRXsi+Sep 24 2005, 05:28 PM-->

Blanco

@Sep 24 2005, 04:56 PM

It's hard to argue with the fact that aid was waiting at Florida's boarder during last year's hurricane season and that Bush was far too busy with his vacation to be an actual leader for Katrina.

[post=559847]Quoted post[/post]​

it still has nothing to do with them being black, which is the argument of most of them.

[post=559859]Quoted post[/post]​

In many ways I would agree, but you will always find racism shining through in the good ol US of A.

Prime example, and I know many of you have heard about it.

Caption 1 under the very dark skinned person: " A young man walks through chest deep flood water after looting a grocery store in New Orleans"

Caption 2under the light skinned person: "Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store..."

Well... the blacks "loot" the grocery store, yet the whites "find" food in a grocery store?

Nope, not one whit of racism anywhere. Move along.

 

[Xaero3953]

We should turn the entire middle-east into glass and be done with it.

 

[E_SolSi]

FOR FUCK SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its not the same reporter or even the same agency
its 2 completly different and unrelated agencies reporting
note the "AP" and the "AFP"

its not suprizing that they word shit differently

why is everyone so damn hard up on finding racism in everything

 

[Battle Pope]

Originally posted by Xaero3953@Sep 25 2005, 10:30 PM
We should turn the entire middle-east into glass and be done with it.

[post=560358]Quoted post[/post]​

Thanks for that little glimmer of ignorance. My day is now complete.

 

[Xaero3953]

I honestly don't care. I voted for Bush and stand behind him 100%

 

[Battle Pope]

Might I ask... why does the fact that you voted for bush make it okay for you to think we should just "kill all the ragheads"?

 

[Celerity]

This thread is just chaos. One post is about racism, the next is about nuking the middle east (I think the irony is uproarius) then there is something about howmuch someone likes Bush, then the same about Clinton.

What's going on here ? Do I need to bring on the pain ?

 

[posol]

while this thread does suck, steve, please spare us

 

[Celerity]

On topic, I do think the pro-war movement down there is depressing. The slogans suck, the philosophies suck, and none of "my" really good pro-war arguers are no where to be found. The anti-war guys are there with full compliment of anti-Halliburton (Ok, I'm game), their UN supported "No WMD" figures and Cindy Sheehan (poster woman for "if you're a parent, then you NEED to oppose the war" movements).

The one thing I can say about the protesters on hand is that they are being used by others behind the stories. Their words are getting twisted, and they are out there pushing an agenda which is close - But no cigar - To what they wholly believe. Cindy herself is only moments away from wearing a "Gerber Baby Food" t-shirt as a sponsor.

At the same time, the people that I would like to see represented are no-shows (As usual). Where are the people that want to show the world that Saddam was a tyrant and a terrorist leader ? They are sitting on their PCs blogging in the wind. There is more coverage now, than ever before, that tries to save Saddam's ass like he's the second coming of Santa Claus. "No war for oil" "No war for profit" "No WMDs, No Bush" aren't being corrected at all - And are allowed to continue forth spreading their "Close,but no cigar" agendas.

So this protest is a sham. No one is going to get their voices heard, because they are bandwagoning with other people who want a common goal: The end of Conservative leadership. Here is an example:

I believe in what Bush does because his vision is similar to mine. Rid the world of tyranny and bad leadership. Rid the world of Saddam (He wasn't my first choice, but I'll go along 100% so far). Next thing I know Halliburton is contracted to rebuild Iraq. I'm not a fan of this decision, but something out there is telling me to hold "Halliburton is the good guys" signs up in front of the Democratic National Convention. No, that's not me. "Close but no cigar".

So these protestors are waving their signs, but they are playing into something that isn't whole-hearted. The situation is too broad and too complex now for simple "Yes / No" answers. And the idea of protest is one that needs updating.

If protests were to be kept "on topic", then you would see effective protest. Now Protest only leads to failure because someone that wants to get Stem Cell research back and going is being grouped in with people who believe that we had no reason to be in Iraq. And because of this, protests and protestors look stupid.

Cindy had her shit on straight for the first week. She wanted the US forces out of Iraq, completely, because she had suffered a personal loss at the hand of something she believed was a farce. That was it. The end. Next thing we know, the "War for Oil" people showed up en masse, then the "War for Profits" people showed up and then the "War on domestic policy" people showed up and it became a circus. Now people are standing in the road in Texas holding signs that say "Hillary in '08" because of coverage, not because they belong on that venue.


And then, they all marched to DC.

 

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by Celerity@Sep 26 2005, 12:06 PM
Big Ol' Post.

[post=560527]Quoted post[/post]​

Okay, I'll level with ya. A lot of the protesters are off their rocker. Cindy has taken it a bit too far. They're bleeding over into Katrina and all the mess surrounding that. However I firmly believe that this war is the true sham. There were no illegal weapons of mass destruction (I love that buzzword, hehe) found. The reason we went to war, yes that was the reason we went to war, turned out to be a big pile of lies mixed in with forged papers and half witted intelligence.

I've heard all the nonstop "we went to war to bring democracy to the Iraqis" crap, that was NOT the reason we went to war. We had just been attacked, there are two huge buildings that have passed me by in railroad gondolas. We as a country were worried about the chances of being attacked again by terrorists. Saddam posed no threat to America, yet the Bush administration ramped up everyone's fear with the aluminum tube and uranium intelligence (which turned out to be forged) and the whole smoking gun, nuclear cloud thing. The tubes were meant for short range weaponry, which Saddam was legally able to produce and own. I'll say it again, the tubes could not have been used to enrich uranium, any nuclear scientists could tell you that.

Congress voted to give authority to go to war based on the information provided saying that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to America and posessed illegal weapons, both of which were untrue. There was no "Hey, the Iraqis are being oppressed, let's start a war to free them!" vote, otherwise I would have probably been cool with the war. Tell me the damn truth for once and I will stick behind you!

Being a liberal, I do not want to see the end of conservative leadership or conservative politics. That is a necessary balance to liberal leadership and politics. What I do want to see is the end of NEO-CONSERVATIVE leadership and politics. Big difference there that many on both sides do not see. Being a liberal, I also do not want to see the rise of Third-Way leadership. Thirds are to liberals as Neos are to conservatives. Both are waaaaaay to far out there to be considered leaders of this country. The current state of America is a shining reason why. The dollar is plummeting in value, our jobs are going away, we are in a defecit totalling an amount that, if all of us who posted here were to count all the money we have *SEEN* in our lifetimes and add it up, it would not even make a dent in it. Cronyism at a level never before seen (Think the director of FEMA, think Halliburton, think Enron, think Unocal, think Tyco), the outright worshipping of the military... now before you go apeshit, hear me out. I respect the men in uniform, I respect what they do and I respect the fact that they do something that I cannot (I can't get in, my ears are fucked.), but in the end it is just a job. They chose that path, they get paid for it, just like you and I do for our jobs. However in this society, the military is seen as something that makes you godlike. It makes you invincible. Once again, I respect them fully, but it's just a job. You patrol war zones, I maintain the computers that house the data on the federal grants for research into new smart armor that keeps you alive in that war zone.

Next thing that I see that needs pointing out:

So these protestors are waving their signs, but they are playing into something that isn't whole-hearted. The situation is too broad and too complex now for simple "Yes / No" answers. And the idea of protest is one that needs updating.

My simple response: "You're either with us or against us."

Speaking of things that are too broad and complex for a yes/no answer.

Finally, yes, some of the people out there are wackos. I'm a liberal and I don't wanna side with many of the people out there. Some I do, others I do not. I believe that Bush is a fuckup and has done many, many things that would warrant impeachment, far worse things than getting head (WHO IN THIS COUNTRY DOESN'T GET HEAD?!?!?). On that note, do you remember how wacko the Right went when they had the chance to put Clinton on the gallows? That was just as bad as many of the wingnuts protesting right now.

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

Ms. Sheehan just got arrested

Whoops.

 

[phyregod]

On this war: (insert half-witted reason for teh war here) is why we're at war. So what. We're in, we're stuck for a while, and we’ll get out sooner or later.. We'll move on to some other area.

Rinse and repeat.

If we end this, we will start something else.

On Anti-war fucktards: Anti-war protestors suck ass. I mean, what the fuck are you going to accomplish waving signs around? We are already at war. Our troops aren't going to spring back to life.. Bush isn't going to suddenly say "Oh shit, I didn't think of that! Bring our troops home immediately!"

Bullshit. If you want to protest before a war breaks out, have at it. Put up your opinion and let it be heard. That would be great.. But to spring up in the middle of a fucking war and try to stop it?? Not ever in history has anyone or any group of people ever accomplished this feat. You will not be the first. Promise.

You know, I didn't even click this thread for a long time just to avoid this..

On Racism: People aren't as racist as you think. I'm sick and fucking tired of people shouting this and that about skin color or origin.. HOLY SHIT FOLKS, LEAVE IT ALONE.

On Poverty: We do not need to "address the poverty issue".. If you are poor, it’s your own fucking fault. You are lazy. Get your ass up and go to work. If you work, you get money.. Its a crazy deal, I realize that you've been on welfare so fucking long that you find it difficult to believe me, but trust me.. Do some work. You will be paid..

On this protestor chick who's kid was killed in Iraq: You are a fucking looser. If you were my mother, I'd come back from the grave and strangle you. Give your son some honor for christs sake.

On the reason for being at war: You know, there are millions of reasons we could be at war.. I'd be willing to bet that the government knows whats up and they have a nice, tidy reason for pwning the Middle East one country at a time. Maybe they can't tell us. Maybe they have and we wouldn't listen. You know what? Fuck this subject.. Just.. Fuck it.

On politics in general: Everyone will never be happy at the same time. Its always one group against another. You please one, you piss of the other. For ever and ever, amen.


PS... That bitch just got arrested on purpose. She went to the Whitehouse and sat in a place where you can't sit. And got arrested. Mission accomplished! What a fucktard! What the hell did that do?

 

[reckedracing]

Bullshit. If you want to protest before a war breaks out, have at it. Put up your opinion and let it be heard. That would be great.. But to spring up in the middle of a fucking war and try to stop it?? Not ever in history has anyone or any group of people ever accomplished this feat. You will not be the first. Promise.

hmmm... google > you

search for the world wide anti war protests before the US invaded iraq...

they were the, THE BIGGEST, anti war protests ever...

and the anti war movement in the US had a huge part to play in the swaying of public opinion regarding the war, and eventually bringing US troops home...

 

[phyregod]

Originally posted by reckedracing@Sep 26 2005, 02:52 PM
search for the world wide anti war protests before the US invaded iraq...

they were the, THE BIGGEST, anti war protests ever...

[post=560584]Quoted post[/post]​

Correct. And they protested. And we went to war. And they continued protesting.. Then some bitches kid dies. They make her a figure head. The war continues.. The protesting continues..

They thought they could use her kid's death as ammunition. So they regrouped, sprang up, and started more shit, right in the middle of a war.

**edit**

Yeah, they never stopped protesting.. Nor will they EVER. But they did try to use this woman as ammo.. Don't even try to tell me otherwise. Really.

 

[reckedracing]

They make her a figure head.

who's they??? she went to texas on her own, by herself to try and see president bush, others joined her but no one put her in the position of anti war spokesperson but herself...

Then some bitches kid dies.

you got some real balls to call some lady who lost her son to a farse of a war a bitch...
how would you feel if your child got shipped off to die in a war that was started over WMD's when the UN inspectors were saying there were no WMD's?

how would you feel when the british press came out with the downing street memo saying very plainly that the US administration was fixing the intelligence so we could have a reason to go to war... AKA Lies...
how would you feel if your son was killed in a war based on lies...
roll that around in your head before you call this woman a bitch...

 

[phyregod]

Originally posted by reckedracing@Sep 26 2005, 03:00 PM

They make her a figure head.

who's they??? she went to texas on her own, by herself to try and see president bush, others joined her but no one put her in the position of anti war spokesperson but herself...

Then some bitches kid dies.

you got some real balls to call some lady who lost her son to a farse of a war a bitch...
how would you feel if your child got shipped off to die in a war that was started over WMD's when the UN inspectors were saying there were no WMD's?

how would you feel when the british press came out with the downing street memo saying very plainly that the US administration was fixing the intelligence so we could have a reason to go to war... AKA Lies...
how would you feel if your son was killed in a war based on lies...
roll that around in your head before you call this woman a bitch...

[post=560588]Quoted post[/post]​

Are you seriously going to tell me that this woman went on her own and by herself?? Are you going to tell me she is not a hand puppet for a major anti-war organization??

My kid?? I TRIED TO GO MYSELF! I tried to sign up.. Unfortunately, due to a few superior stereo systems and an immense dose of stupidity on my part, I could not join due to hearing issues. I would still go if offered the chance.

Farse of a war?? holy shit man.. I don't even want to go there.. Hell, I just went there, read a few posts up.

And If my child died fighting for the USA I would be one proud parrent. Those who are willing to die for our freedom are the greatest people. And they should
be honored. I would die for this country and/or freedom. Its because of those people that this bitch and these protest groups can protest.. most other countries would have shot her already. Its happened time and again.


Politics.. yay wee!

 

[posol]

i hate bush probably more than most of you, but i firmly believe that impeaching him is the wrong thing to do.

 

[posol]

all I ask is that you all learn from this mistake...

and don't vote for Rudy or McCain in '08...
they are even worse....

rudy was a MAYOR. sure, of the biggest city... but there's govenor, theres senator, theres house, then screitarys and so forth, and THEN president. you can;t just make that kind of jump and expect to have a clue.

That, and Rudy will take every freedom you have away from yourself.

he's tried to "turn around" NYC, and instead, its become a place to get arrested for smoking a cigarrette outside....

sad, isn't it?

mccain....

he represents airzona currently.

what the fuck is in arizona? sand?

on top of that, just listening to this guy makes me want to throw my tv.


edwards is slated to run again... i suggest you do some research on his thoughts and ideals.

he may not be the best, but god damnit hes not rudy or mccain, and thats all that matters at this point.

DONT make the same mistake in 08.

 

[Battle Pope]

Originally posted by phyregod@Sep 26 2005, 12:45 PM
On this war: (insert half-witted reason for teh war here) is why we're at war. So what. We're in, we're stuck for a while, and we’ll get out sooner or later.. We'll move on to some other area.

Rinse and repeat.

If we end this, we will start something else.

On Anti-war fucktards: Anti-war protestors suck ass. I mean, what the fuck are you going to accomplish waving signs around? We are already at war. Our troops aren't going to spring back to life.. Bush isn't going to suddenly say "Oh shit, I didn't think of that! Bring our troops home immediately!"

Bullshit. If you want to protest before a war breaks out, have at it. Put up your opinion and let it be heard. That would be great.. But to spring up in the middle of a fucking war and try to stop it?? Not ever in history has anyone or any group of people ever accomplished this feat. You will not be the first. Promise.

You know, I didn't even click this thread for a long time just to avoid this..

On Racism: People aren't as racist as you think. I'm sick and fucking tired of people shouting this and that about skin color or origin.. HOLY SHIT FOLKS, LEAVE IT ALONE.

On Poverty: We do not need to "address the poverty issue".. If you are poor, it’s your own fucking fault. You are lazy. Get your ass up and go to work. If you work, you get money.. Its a crazy deal, I realize that you've been on welfare so fucking long that you find it difficult to believe me, but trust me.. Do some work. You will be paid..

On this protestor chick who's kid was killed in Iraq: You are a fucking looser. If you were my mother, I'd come back from the grave and strangle you. Give your son some honor for christs sake.

On the reason for being at war: You know, there are millions of reasons we could be at war.. I'd be willing to bet that the government knows whats up and they have a nice, tidy reason for pwning the Middle East one country at a time. Maybe they can't tell us. Maybe they have and we wouldn't listen. You know what? Fuck this subject.. Just.. Fuck it.

On politics in general: Everyone will never be happy at the same time. Its always one group against another. You please one, you piss of the other. For ever and ever, amen.


PS... That bitch just got arrested on purpose. She went to the Whitehouse and sat in a place where you can't sit. And got arrested. Mission accomplished! What a fucktard! What the hell did that do?

[post=560581]Quoted post[/post]​

I was going to reply to this... then I realized that you're probably just ignorant. After all, it's hard to see what's really going on when your head is planted in your rectum.