Today's B Series Myth, 0wned.

[liquid00meth]

I'm an LS fan. Straight out of the box. And if there is one thing I hate, it's having to go on the defensive when some VTEC nutjob starts rolling his eyes at me cause my engine isn't the almightey vtec. I could never justify the reason to spend 2,000 dollars on the GSR motor, when an LS motor could be had for much cheaper. I finally just busted out the dyno charts, so maybe even one more person will understand why the GSR motor aint' all that great, or, not worth the extra 2 grand anyways.

Here we have equally modded (basically stock) LS and GSR motors

If you are so kind as to notice, the GSR and LS motors are ALMOST EXACTLY the same, up till about 5.5 grand. interesting, eh? And if you notice the rest of the dyno chart, that extra 2 grand you spend on the GSR gives you a whopping Burst of a tire melting 20 hp (for about 1.5k RPMS, at the very top of the rev range) wooo! 2,000 dollars for that.

Below I have given a nice cost analyzation of the dyno charts.

And yes, I know the GSR does come with some better parts on/in the engine. But c'mon. We all know they aren't worth the money. And as for the difference in track times, that can be accounted to the GSRs shorter gearing, which on the other hand, is quite an advantage over the LS.


If you still want to pay that extra 2gs for the GSR, be my guest. But I just thought I'd shed some light on the situation, as to save an unsuspecting engine buyer some dough. For that extra 2 grand you could have turbo. And then, for the same price, the GSR would be miles behind.

Thats all. And just so you all know, my company convieniently paid me to write this, make those images, and they are "graciously" hosting the images also So thank them, lol.

Feel free to comment and/or point out that you think I'm wrong.

Adios.

 

[B16]

from an all motor standpoint the GSR is a much much better platform to start with. you are comparing 2 stock motors, i think mod for mod the GSR will own the LS. but, to each's own.

 

[Tonyd0821]

not to dissuade but...

20 extra hp, is 20 extra hp.

personally? if i was to do a swap, i would go for the gsr. reason being is that my ex had a 00 gsr.
i fell in love with that car, then we broke up. i miss the car more than the girl

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

Originally posted by karnash@Jun 19 2003, 01:06 PM
i miss the car more than the girl

And yeah, for our small-displacement engines, 20 horsepower is quite a bit. If you're talking 4.6L Mustang GT's, it's not that much of a difference. People spend quite a bit of money squeeking out 5 horses here, 10 there.

 

[Tonyd0821]

isnt the general rule of thumb a hundred bucks for every extra horsepower?

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

I don't know if I'd believe that. I'd guess it would depend on what stage of build you're in. Just starting out, no way. Middle of the build, yeah. All-out race, probably more.

Nice sig, by the way.

 

[liquid00meth]

Well lets put it this way,


I can buy a turbo kit for 2 grand.

You take Your VTEC, for 2 grand, and 20 HP and Ill take my turbo kit for 2 grand, and we'll see who got the best bang for their buck, eh?

 

[asmallsol]

Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord@Jun 19 2003, 04:20 PM
I don't know if I'd believe that. I'd guess it would depend on what stage of build you're in. Just starting out, no way. Middle of the build, yeah. All-out race, probably more.

Nice sig, by the way.

Karnash, you must of dug that post up from the past. I was the one who keeped on spelling it wrong so E posted that which was at least 6 months ago.

 

[lsvtec]

Perhaps you need to clarify that you are looking for the most power for the least amount of money.

If you were talking NA, I would laugh at you. The LS is a pretty lame powerplant to start tuning for NA.

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

Well, I don't think the argument was ever "VTEC vs. turbo". It was an LS vs. a GSR engine. There are some of us (like me) who'd love to turbo, but don't have the money, or who don't want the extra hassle of tuning it and keeping it running right. I don't have the means or the time to build my engine to handle a turbo. For that reason, I dropped in an H22 and lightly modded it. I never even considered an H23 (pretty similar to the LS vs. GSR comparison). It's got the same torque, but 40 fewer horses. That was worth the extra cash for me.

 

[Gen2Teg]

20hp is 20hp. Thats a lot. Superchargers add about 50hp. 2 grand well spent on a GS-R

 

[liquid00meth]

Originally posted by lsvtec@Jun 19 2003, 03:36 PM
Perhaps you need to clarify that you are looking for the most power for the least amount of money.

If you were talking NA, I would laugh at you. The LS is a pretty lame powerplant to start tuning for NA.

Indeed, I forgot to include that the case changes quite a bit for an n/a tuner. The GSR already starts with a better capability for higher revs, and higher compression. And since most people just want the fastest car they can get for the least money, it's important to know the actual differences with the GSR motor and such.

 

[liquid00meth]

Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord@Jun 19 2003, 03:39 PM
Well, I don't think the argument was ever "VTEC vs. turbo". It was an LS vs. a GSR engine. There are some of us (like me) who'd love to turbo, but don't have the money, or who don't want the extra hassle of tuning it and keeping it running right. I don't have the means or the time to build my engine to handle a turbo. For that reason, I dropped in an H22 and lightly modded it. I never even considered an H23 (pretty similar to the LS vs. GSR comparison). It's got the same torque, but 40 fewer horses. That was worth the extra cash for me.

hah 40 extra hp is quite a bit different.

and as for the Supercharger guy,

the gsr only has the advantage at the very top of the rev range it is not like it holds 20hp over the ls for the entire rev rage. Part of the point is that they are the exact same motor 80% of the rev range, and the GSR is only slightly better for the last 20

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

Originally posted by liquid00meth@Jun 19 2003, 01:43 PM
hah 40 extra hp is quite a bit different.

But it's somewhat proportionate. Accords/Preludes are quite a bit heavier than Tegs/Civics, so the 40 horses are a little more needed. But you're right, it's quite a change from 20 horses.

 

[B16]

drive one, you'll see how much that extra 20% counts.

 

[xj0hnx]

The myth is your price comparison also.

LS B18B complete change over $2200
GSR B18C complete changeover $3200

Now, build 40 N/A Hp for the difference.

 

[liquid00meth]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jun 19 2003, 03:54 PM
The myth is your price comparison also.

LS B18B complete change over $2200
GSR B18C complete changeover $3200

Now, build 40 N/A Hp for the difference.

that LS price just got jacked up, if I'm correct those are Hmotorsonline prices, and the difference isn't 40HP.


and the point isn't to build an N/a monster, it's to build a faster car for the money

 

[liquid00meth]

Originally posted by B16@Jun 19 2003, 03:48 PM
drive one, you'll see how much that extra 20% counts.

the extra 20% counts because you were going to same speed as an LS before your 1,500-2,000 kicked in for 2.5 seconds

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by liquid00meth+Jun 19 2003, 10:00 PM-->

92b16vx

@Jun 19 2003, 03:54 PM
The myth is your price comparison also.

LS B18B complete change over $2200
GSR B18C complete changeover $3200

Now, build 40 N/A Hp for the difference.

that LS price just got jacked up, if I'm correct those are Hmotorsonline prices, and the difference isn't 40HP.

Yes they are Hmotorsonline prices, I can get them both for much less in junkyards. And you're right the difference is actually 35 Hp, sorry.
Now add your I/H/E and maybe one other bolt on, you're real close to the difference in price and you've added a whole 15 Hp if you're lucky.

 

[liquid00meth]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jun 19 2003, 04:04 PM
Yes they are Hmotorsonline prices, I can get them both for much less in junkyards. And you're right the difference is actually 35 Hp, sorry.

but not 35 hp in a constant fashion. That is completely different. its a difference for like 1.7k RPM. I'm not saying it's bad to have that extra hp, without a doubt you'll go faster - I'm just considering what you actually get in terms of a better motor.


Funny you should mention the JY thing, I was at the junkyard today picking up an EX cluster for my DX and was asking about engines. They wanted like 1,000 for just for the tranny off an LS. The price gouging is starting to get pretty bad.