98 Civic questions

[mtriples]

Hey.

I just recently bought myself a 98 civic cx...automatic...as basic as she can get, and was wondering what I could do with it. I've already placed a decent clarion sound system in it, am going to change out the bushings with some polyeurethane ones to stiffin up the suspension in the next couple weeks, and wanted to do some engine work.

A buddy of mine has a 99 DX, and suggested a v-tech conversion, which he already did on his own...requires a bunch of header work, new manifold, etc.

I also read up a bit on the b-series swaps, and was a little confused by the variety out there.

Which is more worth it's money, the conversion, or the swap? And what is the best b-series I could match up with it easily? I might see if I can find a super to go with it after...

 

[BrutalB83]

Auto to manual conversion would be my vote. Honda automatics suck performance wise, especially the super-economy minded ones like what's in your car.

A VTEC head swap would be easier and cheaper than a whole motor swap, but it's not going to make a huge difference in performance, especially since you're still going to be limited by your long-geared automatic. If you do decide to do the head swap, I'd suggest upgrading to an EX tranny as well.

If you want to go b-series than things are going to get a bit more complicated. The motor itself will bolt right in to your chassis, but it won't bolt up to your d-series transmission at all. You'll need a b-series transmission, and unfortunately, the only one readily available in the states is the LS transmission, which just like your DX tranny, has long gears meant for economy. You can either try and find an Si or GSR auto tranny and have it imported from Japan, or you can swap to manual.

Swapping to manual is what I would recommend, but I don't really know how much you want to spend on this thing.

Superchargers are available for both the d-series and b-series engines.

Hope that helps...

 

[mtriples]

Thanks for the response, you've already helped a lot. I still have a few more questions though.

I'm still trying to go with the automatic tranny. Any idea off the top of your head how much the Si or GSR's go for, approximately, should I go that way?

The VTEC conversion...the guy who suggested it mentioned that with the overall mods he made, hes getting a good 160 horses, up from the stock 105, I think it is? Even with the long gears, that'll still help the acceleration a good amount.

Finally, which model of the B-Series would work best with my car? I'm reading up some, but I don't know a whole lot about them yet.

I still haven't decided exactly how much I want to put into this car, that's part of the reason I'm on here. I bought this car partially because I know the theory behind the workings of the engine, tranny, etc, but want to learn the hands on half.

 

[99sidude]

No b series engine will work with your stock transmission. You might as well convert your car to manual trans if you are going to swap. If you are dead set on the automatic route, you can use an automatic ls swap from an integra, and there are other auto trans options for b-series that can be imported from japan.

Any b-series engine will bolt into your car with ease. For wiring ease, I would stick with an obd-2 engine (96 and newer). No honda 4 banger is really going to respond well to the long gears of an automatic. Their low torque output, and peaky power curves are best suited to the short gear ratios of the b16, gsr, and type r trannies

I paid $3400 shipped for my complete jdm gsr swap from hmotorsonlie.com

 

[BrutalB83]

I'm still trying to go with the automatic tranny. Any idea off the top of your head how much the Si or GSR's go for, approximately, should I go that way?

A B16 will go from anywhere between $1500 to $3000. GSR swaps are usually a bit more expensive, look to spend at least $2500, probably more like 3-4k.

And if you want to stick with automatic, then you'll need a B-series auto transmission, your stock tranny won't bolt up. Like I said earlier, you can use the LS tranny and they are relatively cheap, but honestly it would really bog down a B16 or GSR motor. Those motors make their power up top, so you want a short-geared tranny to get you there faster.

The VTEC conversion...the guy who suggested it mentioned that with the overall mods he made, hes getting a good 160 horses, up from the stock 105, I think it is? Even with the long gears, that'll still help the acceleration a good amount.

What all does this guy have done? If it's just the head swap and some bolt ons then I seriously doubt he's making 160 horses. Did he actually dyno or is that just his estimate? You'd be hard pressed to get 160 wheel horse out of a D-series motor unless you're boosted.

And as far as the added power helping with acceleration, yes, it will help some, but like I said, the VTEC motors make their peak power at fairly high RPMs. You want a transmission that will get you up there quickly. If you want to go with a dual-cam VTEC motor, and swapping to manual is not an option, I'd at least fork out the extra cash for an automatic Si or GSR tranny from Japan.

Another problem with Honda automatics is that they have relatively thin gears and small clutch packs. If you pair them with a motor that's making significantly more horsepower than what the tranny was designed to handle it's likely to break before too long.

Finally, which model of the B-Series would work best with my car? I'm reading up some, but I don't know a whole lot about them yet.

Either a B16 or B18C (GSR) would work fine for your purposes. If you're interested in going turbo later you might want to look into a B18A or B18B (Integra LS motor). They have a fairly low factory compression ratio and are sturdy enough to handle a decent amount of boost without re-doing the internals.

Hope that helps...

 

[mtriples]

Thanks for the input.

I'm not entirely sure the scope of what he did, I do know that he has added on cold air, rebuilt the tranny, and added in a few other modifications. And that 160 was on a dyno.

Another question...what would I have to do to fit a k-series in, if I were able to get my hands on one?

 

[BrutalB83]

Thanks for the input.

I'm not entirely sure the scope of what he did, I do know that he has added on cold air, rebuilt the tranny, and added in a few other modifications. And that 160 was on a dyno.

Another question...what would I have to do to fit a k-series in, if I were able to get my hands on one?

I'd be interested to know what he did to get 160 wheel horse out of a naturally aspirated D16, that's pretty impressive.

Anyways, for the K-swap, you'd need aftermarket mounts, and then some fab work to get the transmission to fit in (it's just like the B-swap, you can't use the D-series transmission). Swapping a K wouldn't exactly be the easiest or cheapest swap out there, but they can make excellent power, even with just cams and bolt ons.

 

[mtriples]

Ah...I was looking back at what you said there. That 160 is HP at the crank, not the wheels.

I've pretty much made up my mind. Looking at things...I'm going to eventually go with a K-series...yes, I know it's a fair amount of work for the swap, etc, but I'm liking what I'm seeing in them. Whats a good tranny for them? When I do the swap, I'm going to try for a K24B throw a good 200 in there stock...might have to put thought into hooking up something to keep it from flipping onto it's back after I'm done haha

But as you might have noticed, I did say eventually...maybe another year or so. For now, I'm going to do the Y7-Y8 miniswap...already found a header on ebay, still need to see if I can find a better manifold and and cam, etc...going to see if I can find a good 99-00 EX auto since it should be a direct bolt-on, same sensors, etc. Know of any decent bolt on supers that'll fit on this once I'm done?

I'm giving serious thought to converting to a manual...found someone who's willing to teach me to drive a stick

...what are good performance manual tranny models for the D, B, and K series?

 

[99sidude]

K24B Havn't heard of that one yet... You will need to run a k series trans if you want to run a k series motor.

 

[mtriples]

Sorry about that, meant the K24A2:

K24A2

• Found in:
• 2004-2007 Acura TSX
  • Displacement: 2354 cc
  • Bore and Stroke: 87 mm x 99 mm (3.43x3.90 inches)
  • Compression: 10.5:1
  • Power: 200 hp (147 kW) @ 6800 rpm (2004-2005)
  • Power: 205 hp (150 kW) @ 6800 rpm (2006-2007) *SAE Net Rev 8/04
  • Torque: 166 ft·lbf (225 N·m) @ 4500 rpm (2004-2005)
  • Torque: 164 ft·lbf (222 N·m) @ 4500 rpm (2006-2007)*SAE Net Rev 8/04
  • Redline: 7100 rpm

I'd found one in BC (Canada) and one in Massechusets (US), or however you spell it...canada one was going for about 2750 canadian, and could get the 6 speed manual tranny for another 1800, motor in the US was going for 1800 american, but it was missing the alternator, etc...didn't say anything about the tranny...The exchange rate is close enough now, I won't bother trying to convert the prices.

I might try to go for that K23, too...wouldn't mind a factory turbo'd motor. Just have to see whats available when i can do it.

 

[BrutalB83]

If you're gonna get the TSX motor then you would want the tranny that comes with it, it's a 6 speed. The RSX-S tranny is a 6-speed and would work well too. You can use the 02-05 Civic Si tranny, but the 6-speed would be better. You can also use an Accord or CR-V tranny, but those ones aren't really sport-oriented. I'm assuming they have fairly long gears for good gas mileage.

Also, a manual tranny swap would pretty much be a must at that point. I suppose you could do an automatic, but either way it's going to require some cutting and fabrication to mount the transmission, so you might as well go manual.

 

[mtriples]

Hey. I have a few more questions, then I'll leave you alone

Is there a performance auto transmission that'll fit my D16? All I'm looking for here is a model number, and maybe a place that might deal in them. I have no problems importing from japan for it, if need be, but I think I'm going to stick with the Y7 (with the Y8 head of course) for a year or two, and just do what I can with it...learn the engine as well as I can before finding a new one. And if I end up doing that manual conversion, I'll save it for when I get around to the motor swap.

Ah...do you have any other suggestions for upgrades? I already plan on a turbo, but that won't be for another year or so, so I won't worry about that yet. I'm having the new head ported and polished, 3 angle valve cuts, plus sticking in a stage 2 N/A cam as well, probably from crower. I'm also planning on throwing in Apex N1 exhaust and Tein Coilovers. How worth is it to buy an aftermarket throttle body, fuel rail, etc? Oh, and is there any way I can raise the redline limit, allow my motor to reach higher RPM's? Might be a stupid question, but I'd like to know.

 

[mtriples]

bump

 

[99sidude]

there's no such thing as a performance honda auto transmission. I think there's a company that sells a higher capacity torque converter, but thats it. To raise the rev limmit, you are going to need to get your ecu chipped; however, there's no point in doing so unless you have bumped compression/headwork done. A bored TB might be good if you're planning on going FI in the future. I think that you could use a b-series throttle body and get simmilar results.

 

[BrutalB83]

Is there a performance auto transmission that'll fit my D16?

That's an oxymoron, right there...

In a word, no. You can swap to an EX transmission, which is geared slightly more aggressively, but there really aren't any automatic Honda transmissions that are really meant for performance. There was an automatic GSR in Japan, but that transmission won't work for you unless you're using a B-Series motor.

You can try and beef up your automatic with an aftermarket tranny cooler and torque converter, but with all the money you'll spend to buy that stuff and have it installed you might as well swap to manual.

Honda manual transmissions are almost always superior to their automatic counterparts. We're talking 5 or 6 gears versus four; the manuals will win every time from a performance standpoint.