DazedCivic99
Senior Member
wow i do it i didnt know there was name for it but i were sandels 24/7 so i can do it with my toes alone
Heel-toe. Who Does It?
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I've read through the post and there is a lot of misinformation in here.
1) rev matching, as the term implies, involves matching the engine RPM while the tranny is in neutral to what it will be when next gear is selected. When done propertly, no clutch is needed. This is the prefered method used for road racing by VERY experienced drivers because it leaves their left foot free for trail braking.
As you approach the turn you are hard in the gas, at the last possible second you let off on the gas and put the tranny in neutral (no clutch) while simutaneously left foot braking. With your right foot you press the gas to bring the rpms up to where they will be when you exit the turn, while left foot trail braking you select the next gear (when done right it will slide into gear as though the clutch was engaged) once in gear you ease back into the throttle until you have it matted
2) double clutching is mainly for down-shifting and has to be done using fat-foot
or heel-toe. It does no good when up shifting.
as you approach the turn you hit the clutch with your left foot and shift into neutral and then release the clutch. at the exact same time your big toe (toes) are hard into the brake until you feel that the tires are just about to lock. You "blip" the throttle to bring the RPMs back up a bit and to have the layshaft match the engine RPM, while still braking/turning you left foot the clutch & select the appropriate gear and shift. When you let out the clutch you should be near the exit RPM and be able to ease back into the throttle
Being fast is about being smooth. When using heel-toe or rev matching if you do not drive the proper line into the turn then nothing else really matters. When you brake/shift/turn exactly right you should not have to "floor it" to get out of the turn. You should have carried enough speed through the turn to just simply ease back into the throttle. Also, the blip is to get the engine where you want to rpms to be when you let the clutch out or very close. 7-8.5k is not a "blipping" the pedal ....that's "pressing"
Another technique that no one has mentioned is speed shifting. Drag racing use this one and it is the simplest to learn.
1. Mat the throttle
2. At the appropriate time, press the clutch in only far enough to be able to shift
3. DO NOT take foot off the throttle.
When shift at vrey high RPM's (like redline) this has to be done extremely fast to stay off the rev limiter. (well, it does for those that haven't disabled theirs.
Hope this helps
1) rev matching, as the term implies, involves matching the engine RPM while the tranny is in neutral to what it will be when next gear is selected. When done propertly, no clutch is needed. This is the prefered method used for road racing by VERY experienced drivers because it leaves their left foot free for trail braking.
As you approach the turn you are hard in the gas, at the last possible second you let off on the gas and put the tranny in neutral (no clutch) while simutaneously left foot braking. With your right foot you press the gas to bring the rpms up to where they will be when you exit the turn, while left foot trail braking you select the next gear (when done right it will slide into gear as though the clutch was engaged) once in gear you ease back into the throttle until you have it matted
2) double clutching is mainly for down-shifting and has to be done using fat-foot
or heel-toe. It does no good when up shifting.as you approach the turn you hit the clutch with your left foot and shift into neutral and then release the clutch. at the exact same time your big toe (toes) are hard into the brake until you feel that the tires are just about to lock. You "blip" the throttle to bring the RPMs back up a bit and to have the layshaft match the engine RPM, while still braking/turning you left foot the clutch & select the appropriate gear and shift. When you let out the clutch you should be near the exit RPM and be able to ease back into the throttle
Being fast is about being smooth. When using heel-toe or rev matching if you do not drive the proper line into the turn then nothing else really matters. When you brake/shift/turn exactly right you should not have to "floor it" to get out of the turn. You should have carried enough speed through the turn to just simply ease back into the throttle. Also, the blip is to get the engine where you want to rpms to be when you let the clutch out or very close. 7-8.5k is not a "blipping" the pedal ....that's "pressing"
Another technique that no one has mentioned is speed shifting. Drag racing use this one and it is the simplest to learn.
1. Mat the throttle
2. At the appropriate time, press the clutch in only far enough to be able to shift
3. DO NOT take foot off the throttle.
When shift at vrey high RPM's (like redline) this has to be done extremely fast to stay off the rev limiter. (well, it does for those that haven't disabled theirs.
Hope this helps
Just in case anyone thinks I don't know what I'm talking about...
also
all you fat foot drivers are doing it right and you didn't even know it
here's the link.... how to heel-toe down shift
also
all you fat foot drivers are doing it right and you didn't even know it
here's the link.... how to heel-toe down shift
Originally posted by ahedau@Feb 17 2003, 10:33 PM
all you fat foot drivers are doing it right and you didn't even know it
Nah, I knew I was doing it right- it's just that the pedal layout in the Civic really doesn't make heel-toeing easy. Oh well, my feet are wide enough, so "fat-footing" is fine for me.
Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Feb 18 2003, 03:05 AM
fat people rule
Nah, who said I was fat? I just have big feet.
sportlinecrx
Banned
that makes a lot more sense to me. i can't see twisting my leg during a hard turn. plus, your heel doesnt move up and down like the ball of your foot. in order to move it, you have to straighten or bend your leg at the knee.
I actually have seen people "heel-toe" with the heel and the toe.
BlackJDMdeath
Senior Member
lol "fat people rule!"
you damn right! i always fat foot (i wear a 14, there is no turning my feet up under the dash lol) when im slowing down and i think the light is about to turn green. the reason ive always done it is because i dont like pushing in the clutch, letting my revs drop, downshifting and letting out the clutch, it sounds disgusting (not to mention the forward jerking shit sucks too).
btw double clutching was originated for both upshifting and downshifting back in the day when trannys didnt have synchros. to double clutch you push in the clutch, pull the tranny out of gear, let off the clutch, blip the throttle, push in the clutch and put it in gear, let out the clutch and get on your way.
btw- if anyone wants to have a tranny dispute with me, maybe you can come rebuild my tranny for me if you know more than i do maybe you should be doing it! lol
you damn right! i always fat foot (i wear a 14, there is no turning my feet up under the dash lol) when im slowing down and i think the light is about to turn green. the reason ive always done it is because i dont like pushing in the clutch, letting my revs drop, downshifting and letting out the clutch, it sounds disgusting (not to mention the forward jerking shit sucks too).
btw double clutching was originated for both upshifting and downshifting back in the day when trannys didnt have synchros. to double clutch you push in the clutch, pull the tranny out of gear, let off the clutch, blip the throttle, push in the clutch and put it in gear, let out the clutch and get on your way.
btw- if anyone wants to have a tranny dispute with me, maybe you can come rebuild my tranny for me
if you know more than i do maybe you should be doing it! lol heterosapian
Senior Member
Perhaps its how I was taught to drive but I would feel wrong even taking the car out of gear without depressing the clutch , is that shit even safe 
. I'm really interested in keeping my car for more than a few months but it would help my shifting speed to be able to simultaniously yank it out of gear and depress the clutch rather than pulling the clutch then shifting out. If I can safely get away with that then let me know.
thanks
, is that shit even safe . I'm really interested in keeping my car for more than a few months but it would help my shifting speed to be able to simultaniously yank it out of gear and depress the clutch rather than pulling the clutch then shifting out. If I can safely get away with that then let me know.thanks
yes you can take a car out of geat without the clutch... you can also put it in gear without the clutch... but you have to match the RPMs so it will slide in cleanly... ... i do this for my 1 hour ride home from school every day ... you will know if you did it wrong by the loud grinding sound
... you will know if you did it wrong by the loud grinding sound BlackJDMdeath
Senior Member
ahedau... exactly how do you let your revs drop to idle, downshift and just let off the clutch wrongly? please do tell, you just won my interest... if you wish to quote me and try to attack me, learn to fucking read you might find it helpful.
I was saying that if you want to sit here and ramble on that you know more about trannys than I do, maybe you should be the one rebuilding my tranny.
Thanks for the crosseyed rambling, try again?
you might find it helpful. I was saying that if you want to sit here and ramble on that you know more about trannys than I do, maybe you should be the one rebuilding my tranny.
Thanks for the crosseyed rambling, try again?
BlackJDMdeath...
Apparantly, I can't read nor can you take criticism. It wasn't a personal attack. I was having a little fun at your expense and if that bothered you..........sorry .
You stated rather plainly you didn't like to use the clutch. You also mentioned that it sounded disgusting and threw in a paranthetical statement about the car jerking, I assume, when letting out the clutch or putting the car in gear somehow. Your post also made it clear that you were rebuilding a transmission. However, this could have been in jest.
Because I wasn't clear enough the first time, let me re-state.
When you slow and need to down shift, in order to truely employ the method known as "rev-matching", then you:
1) Simultaneously let off the throttle and use your right hand to push/pull the gear shift into neutral;
2) Apply adequate brake with your left foot while simultaneously applying enough throttle pressure with your right foot to bring the RPM level where it will be after selecting the next gear;
3) Turn, if that is why you slowed down, while simutaneously using your right hand to shift into the appropriate gear;
4) Steadily apply more throttle as you exit the turn (assuming that is why you where slowing down).
i.e. in my '92 Civic I take a 90* turn at 25mph. I shift into neutral and hold the RPM at 3000. When my car slows to about 25mph I shift into 2nd and start accelerating out of the turn.
You/I know when you/I did all this correctly because there will be no grinding and the car will shift as if you had used the clutch.
When done correctly it will not harm your transmission. However, because there is so much going on at the same time it is hard to do it correctly every time. I probably get it right 2/3 of the time and that is only because I have being practicing at the same turns, at the same speeds, in the same car for more than a year.
When you do it incorrectly it will cause pre-mature wear on all the internals in the tranny.
That's rev-matching...
A different technique, double-clutching, will prolong the life of your transmission when used all the time. However, as correctly stated in another post, cars are engineered now-a-days to be shifted without using this method. Using it becomes a pain in the arse after awhile and since you are not forced to use it to shift, few people do. Besides...most transmissions will last the life of the car unless you really abuse it.
So, BlackJDMdeath, are you rebuilding a transmission or where you just teasing?
Apparantly, I can't read nor can you take criticism. It wasn't a personal attack. I was having a little fun at your expense and if that bothered you..........sorry
.You stated rather plainly you didn't like to use the clutch. You also mentioned that it sounded disgusting and threw in a paranthetical statement about the car jerking, I assume, when letting out the clutch or putting the car in gear somehow. Your post also made it clear that you were rebuilding a transmission. However, this could have been in jest.
Because I wasn't clear enough the first time, let me re-state.
When you slow and need to down shift, in order to truely employ the method known as "rev-matching", then you:
1) Simultaneously let off the throttle and use your right hand to push/pull the gear shift into neutral;
2) Apply adequate brake with your left foot while simultaneously applying enough throttle pressure with your right foot to bring the RPM level where it will be after selecting the next gear;
3) Turn, if that is why you slowed down, while simutaneously using your right hand to shift into the appropriate gear;
4) Steadily apply more throttle as you exit the turn (assuming that is why you where slowing down).
i.e. in my '92 Civic I take a 90* turn at 25mph. I shift into neutral and hold the RPM at 3000. When my car slows to about 25mph I shift into 2nd and start accelerating out of the turn.
You/I know when you/I did all this correctly because there will be no grinding and the car will shift as if you had used the clutch.
When done correctly it will not harm your transmission. However, because there is so much going on at the same time it is hard to do it correctly every time. I probably get it right 2/3 of the time and that is only because I have being practicing at the same turns, at the same speeds, in the same car for more than a year.
When you do it incorrectly it will cause pre-mature wear on all the internals in the tranny.
That's rev-matching...
A different technique, double-clutching, will prolong the life of your transmission when used all the time. However, as correctly stated in another post, cars are engineered now-a-days to be shifted without using this method. Using it becomes a pain in the arse after awhile and since you are not forced to use it to shift, few people do. Besides...most transmissions will last the life of the car unless you really abuse it.
So, BlackJDMdeath, are you rebuilding a transmission or where you just teasing?
BlackJDMdeath
Senior Member
lol no teasing, its sitting on the breakdown bench in the next room over. just to clarify WHY it is being rebuilt- when i bought the lude the guy told me he had the tranny rebuilt, cool, so i thought.
As some of the people know on here i have been having difficulty shifting into 2nd while racing and my 5th gear just plain doesnt exist. i get the tranny apart and came to the conclusion that the guy that rebuilt it previously didnt know his head from his ass. im not sure how much you know about trannys but ill tell you what i saw.
My first find was a relief because i knew that what happened to my tranny wasnt my fault. I pulled apart the synchro for 5th gear, whoops, a pressure ring is missing on the brass, uh oh! also my 5th gear fork was worn down a little, nothing insane, but it could prove to cause problems.
i finally get down to the 1st second and reverse synchro and the brass and slider were worn down pretty badly, absolutely nothing compared to 5th though.
The tranny would have been back together a day or so after i pulled it apart but i have been waiting for like 2 weeks for this guy to get me the parts i need (freebie!). if i didnt have the connections i do some moron with his thumb up his ass would have cost me a little over a grand in just parts, then i would proceed to hunt him down and make stew out of him
BTW i never said i dont like to use the clutch, i said i dont like the way some people push in the clutch, let revs drop to idle, downshift and then just let off the clutch, it wreaks havok on a tranny and sounds horrible. if you re-read it you might understand now that you have a little insight.
As some of the people know on here i have been having difficulty shifting into 2nd while racing and my 5th gear just plain doesnt exist. i get the tranny apart and came to the conclusion that the guy that rebuilt it previously didnt know his head from his ass. im not sure how much you know about trannys but ill tell you what i saw.
My first find was a relief because i knew that what happened to my tranny wasnt my fault. I pulled apart the synchro for 5th gear, whoops, a pressure ring is missing on the brass, uh oh! also my 5th gear fork was worn down a little, nothing insane, but it could prove to cause problems.
i finally get down to the 1st second and reverse synchro and the brass and slider were worn down pretty badly, absolutely nothing compared to 5th though.
The tranny would have been back together a day or so after i pulled it apart but i have been waiting for like 2 weeks for this guy to get me the parts i need (freebie!). if i didnt have the connections i do some moron with his thumb up his ass would have cost me a little over a grand in just parts, then i would proceed to hunt him down and make stew out of him
BTW i never said i dont like to use the clutch, i said i dont like the way some people push in the clutch, let revs drop to idle, downshift and then just let off the clutch, it wreaks havok on a tranny and sounds horrible. if you re-read it you might understand now that you have a little insight.
shuturmowth
Senior Member
dude dont try to sound smart and be wrong it just doesnt work
ahedeu was right!!
now i know what you meant by that but you did say it and he did quote you so calm down....
shuturmowth
Senior Member
synchros are what eleviate this problem they dont cause it.....
BlackJDMdeath
Senior Member
lol ::claps and shakes head:: maybe this whole thing with you being the "smart guy" would work out better if you didnt have a keyboard.
seriously, don't talk if you don't have a place. don't be the kid that nobody likes but yet he still continues to walk up to the "group" and pretend like he belongs. honestly kid, resume surfing the 60's and older classifieds and run along now
seriously, don't talk if you don't have a place. don't be the kid that nobody likes but yet he still continues to walk up to the "group" and pretend like he belongs. honestly kid, resume surfing the 60's and older classifieds and run along now
JDM...
sucks having crap broke. Especially if you ain't the one that broke it! Good luck getting it back together.
Yeah, I've seen inside a tranny and I know what you're talking about. I replaced all the bearings in my VX tranny before I swapped. Let me re-state that...I watched an expert replace all the bearings in my VX tranny.
The guy is the service manager at a Honda Dealership and the Crew Chief for the owner that is a weekend racer. He pretty much built the race car from the ground up! I call him "McGuyver" 'cause he can make anything outta the junk left over at the shop
Anyways, good luck!!
sucks having crap broke. Especially if you ain't the one that broke it! Good luck getting it back together.
Yeah, I've seen inside a tranny and I know what you're talking about. I replaced all the bearings in my VX tranny before I swapped. Let me re-state that...I watched an expert replace all the bearings in my VX tranny.
The guy is the service manager at a Honda Dealership and the Crew Chief for the owner that is a weekend racer. He pretty much built the race car from the ground up! I call him "McGuyver" 'cause he can make anything outta the junk left over at the shop
Anyways, good luck!!
BlackJDMdeath
Senior Member
thanks... and yes, it sucks horribly, oh well, i now have my tranny off and am making the most of it by getting a zex flywheel (yay me!) anyway, all is settled, no more ish talkin