mozzandherb
Senior Member
I was wondering if I had to re-sleeve my block if I'm going with 9.1 c/r pistons in a H22a? I heard that you had to if your going to run boost, but do I really?
Re-sleeve my block?
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what kind of pistons are they???
if you're running forged pistons then you NEED to sleeve the H22...
end of story...
if you're running forged pistons then you NEED to sleeve the H22...
end of story...
mozzandherb
Senior Member
I was planning on running forged pistons. Do I need to run forged pistons if later on I plan on boosting? If not then what kind of pistons can I run without re-sleeving that will still be able to handle boost? Thanks
you do not NEED to run forged internals for the motor to be able to handle moderate amounts of boost/HP
proper tune and fuel will be important to prevent detonation, etc...
proper tune and fuel will be important to prevent detonation, etc...
You will basically grind down the sleeves because the FRM sleeves are actually like a fiber reinforced metal not actually steel. So if you put a forged piston in there...just think 300k miles and no oil change for 50k. Insane scoring and the sleeves will be gone. Thats the way Tim explained it to me when i asked.
No, they're actually quite strong- they just don't like forged pistons, so if you're at a power level where the cast pistons will fail, then you have to resleeve to run the forged pistons. It's not because the walls are weak. The pistons are weak, but you have to replace the walls to replace the pistons with forged slugs.
Cast pistons are softer than forged pistons. The forged pistons scratch the hell out of the FRM sleeve because they're too much harder than the sleeve material. Think of the cast pistons and the FRM sleeves as being glass- they just slide against each other and are happy. The forged piston can be a diamond- run that against the sleeve and you have tons of fun.
The S2000 uses forged pistons in an FRM sleeve though, so forged in FRM can be done.
hondatuningmagazine.com says:
Making FRM sleeves goes something like this: First a fiber-based material in the shape of the cylinder sleeve is inserted into the die of the cylinder block. Liquid aluminum is then poured into the die and fuses with the fiber sleeves. Once the block is ready for it, the cylinder walls are machined to the desired bore dimension, leaving only 0.5mm of thickness to the fiber sleeves that cover the cylinder walls.
With the reinforcement the sleeves generate lower friction than traditional iron liners, which translates to improved revolutions, power and reduced wear. In addition the thinner fiber sleeves fortify the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced while maintaining strength and rigidity.
There are drawbacks, however. It can be argued that because they are so thin the sleeves were not designed for too much boost pressure, which limits the potential of the stock engine and poses a challenge for us.
Overboring for more displacement is also out of the question since the sleeves are so lean. Even if you machine-off enough material to avoid breaking through to a water jacket, you still have to deal with the softer untreated metal under the fiber layer. For these reasons it is recommended that H22 sleeves never be bored or honed, always replaced.
Making FRM sleeves goes something like this: First a fiber-based material in the shape of the cylinder sleeve is inserted into the die of the cylinder block. Liquid aluminum is then poured into the die and fuses with the fiber sleeves. Once the block is ready for it, the cylinder walls are machined to the desired bore dimension, leaving only 0.5mm of thickness to the fiber sleeves that cover the cylinder walls.
With the reinforcement the sleeves generate lower friction than traditional iron liners, which translates to improved revolutions, power and reduced wear. In addition the thinner fiber sleeves fortify the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced while maintaining strength and rigidity.
There are drawbacks, however. It can be argued that because they are so thin the sleeves were not designed for too much boost pressure, which limits the potential of the stock engine and poses a challenge for us.
Overboring for more displacement is also out of the question since the sleeves are so lean. Even if you machine-off enough material to avoid breaking through to a water jacket, you still have to deal with the softer untreated metal under the fiber layer. For these reasons it is recommended that H22 sleeves never be bored or honed, always replaced.
mozzandherb
Senior Member
That depends on what I do with the motor, but I would like to be around 275-300hp after boost. I definetly have to get it tuned in the new year. I have some time becuase my car is parked for the winter, so I'm just checking what my options are.
By the way does anyone know approx how much it costs to have it re-sleeved. I know it's vague, but a price range??
Mahle is a company that claims there is no need for a resleave. i think they coat their pistons perhaps? additionally, when talking to honda, they said using factory ring would be better then aftermarkets because of the material interaction between the FRM and pistons rings.
swanny
Senior Member
I looked around a bit and it looks like it costs ~$1,200 for AEBS sleeves and install.
http://www.customdesignperformance.com/eca...a_sleeving.html
mozzandherb
Senior Member
Damn that's pricy.....thanks for the info.
mozzandherb
Senior Member
I would do it, but if I don't have to with the Mahle pistons then I won't. Anyway, there's a long time to go for me, I'll check around and see if anyone else has Mahle.
