Anti- Bush

[Citizen_Insane]

Originally posted by E_SolSi+Jan 27 2004, 08:08 PM-->

92b16vx

@Jan 27 2004, 02:40 PM
And fuck the government taxing the rich more, if I somehow come into millions, I don't want those bastards taking more of what's mine because I have more, that's called theft.

the wealthier already AUTOMATICLY get taxed more... there is no fucking reason to tax them at a higher rate as well

dont see what im saying??
ok heres the simple math

if you make $30,000 per year and are taxed 15%... you have paid $4500 in taxes
if you make $300,000 per year and you are taxed at 15%... you have paid $45,000 in taxes

so the guy with more money is paying more in taxes
$45,000 > $4500

this is fair... but its not how it works

the guy making $30,000 ends up getting taxed at 15% (if head of household)... so he ends up paying $4500
the guy making $300,000 ends up getting taxed at 33% (if head of household)... so he ends up paying $99,000

now the guy with more money is paying a fuckload more in taxes
$99,000 >>>>>>>>>>>> $4500

is this fair??? fuck no

The reason for this is it is a whole lot harder to live on 30k a year than it is to live on 300k per year, so no it isn't acutally fair. Percentage wise it is, but people with lower incomes need the extra tax cuts so they can persue happy lives. Stop fuckin bitching because you got 23 million of 59 million dollars taken away. BIG FUCKING DEAL!! like bigdaddy said, you still have 36 million left!!! How can you say that you can't lead a happy life on 36 mil when there are people in this country and world that don't even get regular fucking meals?!?

 

[MikeBergy]

I'm with everybody who is for eliminating this tax bracket thing. Everyone should be charged at a the same rate. And for that matter, if I were in power to do so, I would eliminate any stupid tax break crap. There are so many people that just try to work the system. The tax system was created by politicians FOR politicians, and everyone else gets screwed. And for the guy that said that it is harder to live on 30,000 a year than 300,000 is only partially right. My buddy ran a farming corporation in so Cal. for most of his working life. He lived in the nice houses, drove good cars, but his cash flow was mostly directed back into his business. As the adage goes, it takes money to make money, and most guys those guys that run a business, I guarantee work harder than any layman here in the US.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Liberals suck, so did that video. I try to stay in the "no spin zone" and this video's author could stand to do so as well. It's alot easier to complain about the efforts of others then to get off your ass and try to effect change yourself. One of the worst things about the internet is your have to hear the voices of all these armchair (or in this case I guess office chair) political critics who bash our government officals, yet can't be bothered to roll up there own sleeves and put there action where there mouth is...

 

[Iquark]

Well, the thing I have with the rich and their taxes is that they get away with not paying the full 15% through fraud, offshore accounts, and tricky investments. A rich person can get away with paying only a small fraction of what they own through "smart" accounting.

 

[BigJ]

The words he used were the best.

But yeah, when I can vote, I am not sure which side I will vote, mostly because I care about what they'll do for me, and for me in the next 4 years, and everything else that matters, like school, health care reform, etc.

I'm with ktanka and big daddy on this one. WHo the fuck cares? IT's not like you really could spend that much money in the rest of your life, and giving that much less to your loved ones is alright and all, but really it is straight out greed to say you want more then 37 million dollars to retire on. The principal of taking it is wrong, but still to whine about the loss is stupid because either way, you're set and everyone you know is set so otherwise, I personally think it is greed to want more, even though you earned it to an extent.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Originally posted by Iquark@Jan 27 2004, 07:12 PM
Well, the thing I have with the rich and their taxes is that they get away with not paying the full 15% through fraud, offshore accounts, and tricky investments. A rich person can get away with paying only a small fraction of what they own through "smart" accounting.

I agree we should take a hard look at what were letting people write off, I donate money every year to charity, and I don't write it off. I believe that all the money you make in america should be taxable by america, not shielded in an offshore account. I like the flattax option, it's fare. I do not think we should renig tax cuts for people who make more then 100k/yr, that's suicide. It was giving them a tax break which allowed for the investing it took to jump start our economy, which will in time create more jobs if it hasn't started to already.

 

[BigJ]

See the whole thing I see with the economy is this.

Bush says the economy is up, and analysts say its up also, but a point has been proven. I forget who it was by, but it was on CSPAn the other day(only when I work out do I watch it), and yeah the guy said something along these lines. "He can claim its up all he wants, but I don't know about you, but I hear about more people gettin fired/layed off then ever, and I don't see any changes in my community at all."

I kind of clicked with this, and realized here in washington, there hasn't big economic changes at all.

 

[asmallsol]

Originally posted by Tonyd0821@Jan 27 2004, 03:15 PM


GO BUSH !!!!!!!!!!!


and deport a few hundred thousand illegal mexicans from california while ur at it !!!!!!!!!!

that was the two biggest parallels if I ever heard of them. Bush has proposed to loosen the requirements for illegals and alow more to come in, as well as have the illegals already here, apply for social security, among other US citizen benifits.

EDIT, I think that I have seen that comercial somewhere, could have been the internet.

Bush is a Moron. In the past few weeks, he has been going against his orginal pollicy because the democrats are speaking out on him. Look at his state of the Union. He talks about creating more and more jobs, and was talking up all the points that he was weak in. That isn't being a leader. That is just seeing that one person is having good responces with topic X, so I better put topic X somewhere in my speaches. This is not being a leader, that is being a follower. Bush has depleted the entire surplus that was left with Clinton, and now has one of the biggest debts in american history. And now he is looking back at what all the old presidents did to make them look good and show america's power (ie space) and is trying to replicate it, however, it is as if he does not relize, us going to the moon in the 60's was not just for space exploration, it was to show the russian's we were more powerful then them. The unemployment rate is at the highest it has been in decades, and now, bush wants to spend billions of dollars to go to the moon and mars. Give me a break. NASA scientists say that the money that bush is proposing would just be a down payment and the total could reach to almost a trillion dollars. Hope the ex factory workers enjoy seeing some dude perade on the red planet for a couple of days and feels that the money was spent for a good cause.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Originally posted by Slammed89Integra@Jan 27 2004, 08:29 PM
See the whole thing I see with the economy is this.

Bush says the economy is up, and analysts say its up also, but a point has been proven. I forget who it was by, but it was on CSPAn the other day(only when I work out do I watch it), and yeah the guy said something along these lines. "He can claim its up all he wants, but I don't know about you, but I hear about more people gettin fired/layed off then ever, and I don't see any changes in my community at all."

I kind of clicked with this, and realized here in washington, there hasn't big economic changes at all.

And I've said this many times, and I guess I'll say it again.

The local job market of your town is a year or more behind of Wall st power curve. Just like everyone did not lose there job the week after 911 (when the Dow/Nasdaq plumitted), not everyone is going to find work during the second quater of the recovery, it's going to take a while. The economy at large grows and slows as investors push in or take out money. That's why people with high income benifit during these tax cuts. The idea is that they will invest the money to stimulate the economy and thus create more jobs for the working american, it's a proven formula, but it's not like hitting a light switch.
Those who are pointing the finger and asking why jobs aren't there yet are playing you for fools, if they know what there talking about. By playing off your fears they don't even have to explain themselves, just point the finger, it's almost perfect.
Greenspan has said, this week infact, that jobs should increase early next quarter, although some people may need retraining before they enter the workforce again.

 

[bigdaddyIII]

Originally posted by mwvnos+Jan 27 2004, 02:35 PM-->

bigdaddyIII

@Jan 27 2004, 02:28 PM
fuck the rich too. oh lets complain about losing 23 mil when theres 35.9 million to retire on. i hope he'll make it without that extra 23 million.

watch it boy.....relax on that shit....

i am not a boy...i am nine years your senior. i will work for the rest of my life, and i am positive that i am smarter than half of the millionaires in this country. i can resent whosever wealth i want.
what i meant by ideas was that i vote with the ideas, not the affiliation. many would consider me liberal by ideals. i think pot should be legal (and i dont smoke it), i think youth should be governed by the young, and i think that common people SHOULD get an edge over the wealthy. the wealthy are surrounded by influence and privilege, while common men are far too busy breaking their backs and busting their asses to pay the mortgage and put food on the table to spend time making influencial connections. and while i thank the us armed forces for fighting for my freedoms round the clock, risking life and limb to secure the life that i constanly bitch and moan about, i disagree for bush's decision to send our nations military into war. i think a fleet of stealth bombers couldve gone in and layed down a nice thick layer of napalm, bombed the shit out of em, and we wouldnt need to go in spending money, risking lives. i dont care if people die, just not ours.

 

[E_SolSi]

Originally posted by ktanaka@Jan 27 2004, 05:56 PM
The reason for this is it is a whole lot harder to live on 30k a year than it is to live on 300k per year, so no it isn't acutally fair. Percentage wise it is, but people with lower incomes need the extra tax cuts so they can persue happy lives.

welp if you are struggling to keep your head above water with your current income.... to me that sounds like an incentive to make more fucking money
(not directed at you or anyone else personally)

i dont see the sense in penalizing people who have worked to become successful

 

[E_SolSi]

Originally posted by Iquark@Jan 27 2004, 07:12 PM
Well, the thing I have with the rich and their taxes is that they get away with not paying the full 15% through fraud, offshore accounts, and tricky investments. A rich person can get away with paying only a small fraction of what they own through "smart" accounting.

those things are available to ANYONE
i personally am able to write off enough at the end of the year that i pay 0 taxes

dont be pissy.... learn the system

 

[posol]

don't blame me, i voted for nader.


Nader 2008

 

[mwvnos]

Originally posted by bigdaddyIII@Jan 27 2004, 11:31 PM
and i think that common people SHOULD get an edge over the wealthy. the wealthy are surrounded by influence and privilege, while common men are far too busy breaking their backs and busting their asses to pay the mortgage and put food on the table to spend time making influencial connections.....

why should they have the edge? i mean seriously....so your saying wealthy people should be lower on the food chain then middle and low class? if they are on top, its because they worked to get there....i dont know about Every wealthy person on the planet, but i do know for sure, my dad earned every bit of what he got and earned his seat at the top. you gotta understand, im not trying to belittle anyone or sound concieted but what you saying is just wrong....with money comes power and with power comes influence....if you want power and privledge, work for it....i know ill have to work for mine aswell....so its not a oneway street. but i have accepted the fact that only 1% get that wealthy class but im determined to be in that 1%....


EDIT: and oh yea, about the tax thing....the less than 1% of the nation that is in the higher tax bracket pays 40% of the nations taxes....little food for thought

 

[B16]

Originally posted by mwvnos@Jan 28 2004, 08:30 AM
EDIT: and oh yea, about the tax thing....the less than 1% of the nation that is in the higher tax bracket pays 40% of the nations taxes....little food for thought

interesting, i didn't know that

 

[DarkHand]

Originally posted by B16+Jan 28 2004, 10:53 AM-->

mwvnos

@Jan 28 2004, 08:30 AM
EDIT: and oh yea, about the tax thing....the less than 1% of the nation that is in the higher tax bracket pays 40% of the nations taxes....little food for thought

interesting, i didn't know that

Sounds about right... I don't see how people working at burger king or a car wash are going to put the billions upon billions of dollars the nation needs to run

 

[syphonz420]

you know im a strong supporter of "dont comment on things u dont know about"...we know cars...why the fuck is there a forum on the economy here...

 

[DarkHand]

Originally posted by syphonz420@Jan 28 2004, 11:25 AM
you know im a strong supporter of "dont comment on things u dont know about"...we know cars...why the fuck is there a forum on the economy here...

Cause most of us are bored at work and have nothing better to talk about.

 

[bcman]

EDIT: and oh yea, about the tax thing....the less than 1% of the nation that is in the higher tax bracket pays 40% of the nations taxes....little food for thought

That's true. but that same 1% controls more than 50% of the material wealth. I'm happy making them pay 40%.
The 15% vs 33% argment is a little unfair too. In order to bring in the same tax revenue, the flat tax rate would have to be closer to 25% across the board. so what's worse, a guy making $300,000, taxed 33%, and hass 201,000 left over, or lots of guys making $30,000, taxed 25%, and have $22,500 left?