Obamacare-The New World Order
- Thread starter corvetteguy78
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NY has its own website, trying to get a quote but site is experiencing failboat
This implementation is complete chaos. Acknowledging that privatized healthcare isn't working great and the idea that we need the poorest of people to have health care to keep costs down (like preventative health care unless you wanna pick up the tab) is a step, but fuck. This thing sucks. So much.
I just typed a long response that would have brought clarity to you all but my phone toggled pages and lost it. You'll all be less educated now because of it.
Cliff notes:
Financially, this plan isn't feasible. The "Pay to Play" provision that was meant to persuade healthy (especially low income healthy people) to join the pool or be assessed a penalty has already been delayed. The $100 billion in projected subsidies will not add up and the system will be bankrupt unless its changed and or nationalized within the next decade.
With that said, as of 10/1/2013, the reality is if you're a business or a low income earner, Obamacare is good for you. Most people, especially businesses, have missed this point. Businesses can offer great subsidized group plans to their key employees and send all their low income earners to the exchange. Both parties are happy because costs are lower for both and the plans in the exchange are likely better than what we being offered by the employer previously (due to the incredibly high cost to the employer). That's another reason why this plan will bankrupt - Congress didn't exactly plan for companies to have incentive to drop benefits for their low income earners and add more people to the pool. They expected status quo and for employees to keep their plans in place. Even Wegmans which prides itself on being one of the best 10 places to work, has cut benefits for part time employees and sent them to the exchange. It's cheaper for both parties, so they're still doing what is best for their employees.
Final point. If you're a low income earner, your out of pocket max is subsidized. I.e., if you make less than 400% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) then you pay a percent of your income and have a subsidized out of pocket max.
For single people the break is at $45,000
For a family of four, the break is at $94,500
For a single earner that makes $12,000, their plan breaks down like this...
2% of annual income towards premium. I.e., $240 annually or $20.
Out of pocket max is subsidized 94%. So if the OOP for the plan is $3,000, after the individual contributes $180 more annually, they're done for the year. No co pays, nothing else left to pay. Free insurance. They also get pediatric dental, better chiropractor benefits and a few other things.
I think this will help show you guys why some people are happy about the plan, as long as they fall in those income brackets.
And J - No, they need to add the healthiest people to the pool to subsidize the unhealthy. Insurance only works when both good risks are included in the pool. Theoretically if ALL people were in the pool, insurance could work if they charged the proper amount per person but that just won't happen because the poor can't pull their own weight.
*We sell health insurance as a company, but I don't personally sell it.
Cliff notes:
Financially, this plan isn't feasible. The "Pay to Play" provision that was meant to persuade healthy (especially low income healthy people) to join the pool or be assessed a penalty has already been delayed. The $100 billion in projected subsidies will not add up and the system will be bankrupt unless its changed and or nationalized within the next decade.
With that said, as of 10/1/2013, the reality is if you're a business or a low income earner, Obamacare is good for you. Most people, especially businesses, have missed this point. Businesses can offer great subsidized group plans to their key employees and send all their low income earners to the exchange. Both parties are happy because costs are lower for both and the plans in the exchange are likely better than what we being offered by the employer previously (due to the incredibly high cost to the employer). That's another reason why this plan will bankrupt - Congress didn't exactly plan for companies to have incentive to drop benefits for their low income earners and add more people to the pool. They expected status quo and for employees to keep their plans in place. Even Wegmans which prides itself on being one of the best 10 places to work, has cut benefits for part time employees and sent them to the exchange. It's cheaper for both parties, so they're still doing what is best for their employees.
Final point. If you're a low income earner, your out of pocket max is subsidized. I.e., if you make less than 400% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) then you pay a percent of your income and have a subsidized out of pocket max.
For single people the break is at $45,000
For a family of four, the break is at $94,500
For a single earner that makes $12,000, their plan breaks down like this...
2% of annual income towards premium. I.e., $240 annually or $20.
Out of pocket max is subsidized 94%. So if the OOP for the plan is $3,000, after the individual contributes $180 more annually, they're done for the year. No co pays, nothing else left to pay. Free insurance. They also get pediatric dental, better chiropractor benefits and a few other things.
I think this will help show you guys why some people are happy about the plan, as long as they fall in those income brackets.
And J - No, they need to add the healthiest people to the pool to subsidize the unhealthy. Insurance only works when both good risks are included in the pool. Theoretically if ALL people were in the pool, insurance could work if they charged the proper amount per person but that just won't happen because the poor can't pull their own weight.
*We sell health insurance as a company, but I don't personally sell it.
p58 and p59 that is just scary.
With how things are going, maybe the leeches on society have had it right the whole time.
Its a shame that most of the american public will never hear about the really bad parts of this bill. Everything they hear is just sugar coated stuff like you don't have to worry about preexisting conditions any more.
With how things are going, maybe the leeches on society have had it right the whole time.
Its a shame that most of the american public will never hear about the really bad parts of this bill. Everything they hear is just sugar coated stuff like you don't have to worry about preexisting conditions any more.
So you're saying as a healthy wage earner, who subsidizes the poor, I get to subsidize the unhealthly too? Great, grand, WONDERFUL!
All insurance is a scam. The only people who swear by it have their asses in the breeze like a hang glider with IBS. All the sane people are on the ground getting shit on. It's sad that people get to brace up their unhealthy lifestyles and risky behaviors to achieve success by encumbering those who are healthy, hard working, and responsible. Our culture is now one of antidarwinian ideals, We praise those that risk the welfare of others to promote their own goals. We suffer the leaches and glorify the avarice of pirates. Our compassion and humanity have been turned against us and exploited, leaving animal behavior as the last option to restore our dignity. This is gonna get really fucking ugly before and if it gets any better.
It has been that way for years and it will continue to be that way until there's a change in social mindset.
Speedracer228
......
I'd amend this to "a lot of"
Try getting a loan on a house or a car without insurance, the principle is sound but as with all things people have found ways to exploit and scam from both sides. There are a lot of regional insurance carriers that operate on mostly above board basis. I could go on about the positive and negative merits of the industry but as a whole most insurance companies make a profit from investing the cash they receive for policies and Hardlelly make an underwriting profit, a large number consistently put up a combined ratio over 1 (for every dollar they collect in premium vs $$ they pay out)
Health insurance operates in a completely different spectrum compared to Life, Property & Casualty
The system is flawed but just as much if not more so from the providers and patients who run to the doctor for a runny nose and hand over the insurance card. How often do you use your auto insurance? Health insurance is used as a maintenance plan and the providers charge obscene amounts for stuff because no one looks at the bill before you go to the doctor/hospital. No competiton on pricing means they can all charge you $20 for an aspirin and whatever else they feel like as your insurance pays some bill that you have no involvement in and you fork over your copay and feel like you just got a good deal to see your doctor.
Now add in the fact you are forced to participate in this awful cycle and pay for those who abuse it most and pay nothing in and it is a fiscal nightmare
/rant
One of the best common sense solutions to help change this mentality was offered up during the National Prayer Breakfast speech from Dr Ben Carson. - you tube it, worth the listen
Ever known anyone with cancer or a debilitating disease? Tell me its a scam when those bills show up to your house and you're filing bankruptcy.
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Depends on your insurance I guess.
I have great insurance. 80/20 up to $750 out of pocket a year. $20 co-pay. No deductible.
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The whole concept of insurance is betting on losing. It's awesome if you're a consistent loser.
Any opportunity or weasely excuse to not meet their obligations, they will take. Any time you have to threaten a lawsuit or go to court to get the product you paid for is failboat.
If insurance companies have to pay out more benefits than they collect in premiums, they will go bankrupt. Therefore the overwhelming majority of clients will end up spending more on insurance premiums/deductible/copay than all the benefits they ever receive. If you saved all your insurance payments to a cash account, you'd be money ahead. If you have a catastrophic event, you can still get the medical care and pay it off as a loan and be money ahead. And if you never need it you end up with a big pot of gold.
Most people who love how awesome their insurance is have someone else (employer, parents, etc.) paying for the majority of the cost. They don't see it as the opportunity cost of money they could have been payed because they never see it. Now everyone whose insurance is subsidized by higher earners thinks it's great because they don't see the amount of money being stolen from higher earners.
If you are in a comfortable position with "great insurance" it is 99% likely you are a worthless leech. Your work generates no tangible wealth, and the perceived wealth you generate is derivative of someone below you on the pyramid scheme that actually worked to make it happen. Lawyers, insurance agents, administration, human resources, etc. Nonproductive drains on the economy with the arrogance to believe they serve a valid function to humanity.
Any opportunity or weasely excuse to not meet their obligations, they will take. Any time you have to threaten a lawsuit or go to court to get the product you paid for is failboat.
If insurance companies have to pay out more benefits than they collect in premiums, they will go bankrupt. Therefore the overwhelming majority of clients will end up spending more on insurance premiums/deductible/copay than all the benefits they ever receive. If you saved all your insurance payments to a cash account, you'd be money ahead. If you have a catastrophic event, you can still get the medical care and pay it off as a loan and be money ahead. And if you never need it you end up with a big pot of gold.
Most people who love how awesome their insurance is have someone else (employer, parents, etc.) paying for the majority of the cost. They don't see it as the opportunity cost of money they could have been payed because they never see it. Now everyone whose insurance is subsidized by higher earners thinks it's great because they don't see the amount of money being stolen from higher earners.
If you are in a comfortable position with "great insurance" it is 99% likely you are a worthless leech. Your work generates no tangible wealth, and the perceived wealth you generate is derivative of someone below you on the pyramid scheme that actually worked to make it happen. Lawyers, insurance agents, administration, human resources, etc. Nonproductive drains on the economy with the arrogance to believe they serve a valid function to humanity.
this may be this first post i have ever seen you write in which you sound like a complete dick head
