Obamacare-The New World Order
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Speedracer228
......
Exactly
He is complaining about how our health insurance system works, but to blanket that across "all insurance" is ignorant. Try telling the bank you'll self insure against a fire when you go take out a mortgage or tell your wife your banking the $50 a month you save on 500k term insurance to cover said mortgage and she can have the saved premium in case you kick the bucket.
I hear your gripes about health insurance, it is indeed misused and the health industry prices bier services without consequence
Edit:
It seems as if you have had claim issues in the past, to that I say you either had an agent who misled you into what you were buying or it was poor coverage, insurance policies are contracts of adhesion, any ambiguity goes the way of the policy holder. I obviously work in the industry and more often than not I see claims that shoudnt have been paid rather than claims denied that should be paid.
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Spoken like two truly ignorant people that think that they are enlightened.
Yes, I've seen people's lives dramatically effected for positive and for worse due to insurance. The reality that was posted above is true that most insurance companies are operating with combined ratios over 1.0. That has some to do with controlling expenses but has more to do with the rate of return on invested funds. With historically low interest rates, insurance companies are having to play by a very different game plan than in the past. Couple that with historically high catastrophic claims and you'll begin to understand that insurance hasn't been a very lucrative game over the last decade.
M grandfather just swore up and down about how well he was taken care of for insurance. He passed away the other month and I feel foolish to have never challenged him and to have reviewed his policies. Had I known his idea of being well taken care of, would leave my elderly grandmother with $50,000 - we could have at least contingency planned. The reality is that its ignorant people that leave their families in poor situations because they think they know it all and have all angles covered.
They don't, you don't.
If you got sick, you'd be cashing insurance checks.
If your home burned down, you'd be cashing insurance checks.
If you were in a car accident, you'd be cashing insurance checks.
...but that's right, no one needs those sort of things.
Insurance was created by early explorers to indemnify their interests in their ships. They understood that as an individual they couldn't sustain one single large loss but if they pooled their cash together, as a group, they could sustain losses and still continue on their business.
Apparently it may take some people another 400 years to learn that basic premise.
Yes, I've seen people's lives dramatically effected for positive and for worse due to insurance. The reality that was posted above is true that most insurance companies are operating with combined ratios over 1.0. That has some to do with controlling expenses but has more to do with the rate of return on invested funds. With historically low interest rates, insurance companies are having to play by a very different game plan than in the past. Couple that with historically high catastrophic claims and you'll begin to understand that insurance hasn't been a very lucrative game over the last decade.
M grandfather just swore up and down about how well he was taken care of for insurance. He passed away the other month and I feel foolish to have never challenged him and to have reviewed his policies. Had I known his idea of being well taken care of, would leave my elderly grandmother with $50,000 - we could have at least contingency planned. The reality is that its ignorant people that leave their families in poor situations because they think they know it all and have all angles covered.
They don't, you don't.
If you got sick, you'd be cashing insurance checks.
If your home burned down, you'd be cashing insurance checks.
If you were in a car accident, you'd be cashing insurance checks.
...but that's right, no one needs those sort of things.
Insurance was created by early explorers to indemnify their interests in their ships. They understood that as an individual they couldn't sustain one single large loss but if they pooled their cash together, as a group, they could sustain losses and still continue on their business.
Apparently it may take some people another 400 years to learn that basic premise.
J - although insurance companies are in the stock market, they're mainly in the broader financial market purchasing bonds or holding real estate. The risk propensity is very low. Any reputable insurance company will have 90%+ of their portfolio in low risk asset classes.
Yeah and the stock market generates wealth how? It's all derivative. We've got scams that scam scams so that makes it ok? Or they invest in mortgages, don't get me fucking started on the banks/mortgage/property ownership scam. Oooooh but I'm a bad person if my family doesn't cash out when I expire. Your grandpa was a wise man and your grandma is just fucking fine.
I'm all in favor of letting people make it their choice whether or not to have any type of insurance. But 9/10 times, the result is going to be an " i told you so" situation.
Without insurance you are leaving yourself wide open...you are leaving all the risk on yourself..Insurance is just a way of spreading risk..
Think about all the shit that can happen in life
car accident
health condition
home damage
unexpeceted death
work injury
mis-handled medical care
someone gets injured on your property
the list goes on and on....
Without insurance you are leaving yourself wide open...you are leaving all the risk on yourself..Insurance is just a way of spreading risk..
Think about all the shit that can happen in life
car accident
health condition
home damage
unexpeceted death
work injury
mis-handled medical care
someone gets injured on your property
the list goes on and on....
I know you have a god complex and indeed overestimate your intelligence - I know you're not a burgeoning source of wealth but I'll clue you in- $50,000 buys you about 1 or 2 years when you're elderly, if you're lucky. Property taxes on their small home is $10,000 a year. He wasn't a bad person and his intentions were to take care of her. He would have never wanted to lean on the government but the reality is, if he wasn't receiving government funds for being wounded during the Korean War, they would have never made it. Now we need to be in a battle with Veteran Affairs to have him declared 100% disabled before he passed, so she continues to receive benefits.
Funny how life truly works.
I didn't post that to portray him as a bad person. I posted it because he was a good person that thought he was adequately insured.
I just watched a client's son come to a ball game with his arm in a sling and his fingers sewn back on. Unfortunately he thought a $1,200 disability policy that would have covered his 26 year old son until he was 67, was too expensive.
I didn't think I needed health insurance until I've spent $20,000 trying to fix my back over the last two years.
health insurance is a doozy that doesn't fit the common insurance mold.
You may go your whole life without ever crashing a car....
But the odds are almost 100% that you will need a doctor at some point in your life for something.
I disagree entirely with making it mandatory.
But I understand the need and desire to hedge the healthy people into the pool.
I think they are disproportionally charged, though.
The other option is government run and funded med centers. it eats taxes. middle class people with insurance still foot most of the bill this way too, so its in fact worse.
There's no good answer.
Either you're a heartless bastard or you're a socialist. There's really no middle ground with this topic.
I think everyone should have access to AFFORDABLLE care.
I don't think it should be required.
But I also think that if you can't pay at time of service, you are left to die/rejected as that is the choice you made when you decided to not purchase.
That's fine for most 'sick' cases until you come in 99% dead from a car wreck and your wallet is no where to be found or burned down.... do they hunt for your insurance card, or save your life?
And I think that's where I differ and would like to see DIFFERENT types of insurance.
3-tiers.
1st tier is mandated, but not by law or penalty, but rather as a sales tax so EVERYONE who buys something pays in including illegals and hookers who don't pay taxes. I propose a 1% federal sales tax on ALL items, including food, etc that are normally exempt. A few cents a 100000000 times a day adds up nicely and hurts no one.
This tax will fund only catastrophic stuff like accidents, car wrecks, broken arms, bullet wounds, and so forth were an otherwise normally healthy person becomes immediately in serious condition. Additionally, it will cover anyone born with something.... like cystic fibrosis, muscle dystrophy, and things of the sort. Refuse all lawsuits on these events, thereby reducing costs astronomically. "If you want our help, you take it at your own risk". Opt out by wearing a medical bracelet that states you don't want care and leave you to die. Your choice, but you still pay for the 1% tax.
I would then offer optional tier 2 and tier 3 coverage through whatever medium consumers want. work, benefits, online, etc... Cap lawsuits. Reduce malpractice costs.
Teir 2 would cover non-accident 'sick care'. Cancer, heart attacks, etc etc.
And since most of these are results of poor choices, I would fund the majority of these by sales tax on the leading items that contribute to them.
Tobacco, alcohol, corn syrup, trans fats, sodium nitrate, etc etc... any item containing any of these items pays 5% at the mfg'er level, there by increasing the price of the product and making healthier choices more cost-competitive, while funding the program by those who are statically more likely to use it. Avoid the tax by consuming better. This promotes a healthier nation as well.
Due to the consumption tax, rates for this level can be kept low and affordable for those who don't consume a lot of or any of the black label items, but want coverage.
The list will be the tricky part on this item. It will always change. I suggest using 'families' of products, such as 'non-cane based sugars' so they won't make rice syrup, wheat syrup, etc etc to avoid the tax on corn syrup.
Tier 3 includes your maintenance programs. normal doc visits, pills, flu/colds, etc.
This is the #1 payer cost. I suggest the idea of pre-paying for reduced rate.
ie, if you know you go twice a year, you buy 2 doc visits on your plan at 50% cost.
if you go a 3rd time, it costs full price.
this allows you to hedge yourself and mimics some HSA style funds that let you only pay for what you really need, but if something comes up, you can still get treated.
I think something like this, while a ton of red tape involved, and not exactly 'libertarian', could work well for the country. I think its a good compromise of coverage and payments. I think it's a plan that allows those who need it but can't afford it to get coverage at better prices without a subsidy paid for on the backs of those who already pay for their own.
But, progressives will immediately dismiss it as regressive.
And it is.
But it has to be.
You may go your whole life without ever crashing a car....
But the odds are almost 100% that you will need a doctor at some point in your life for something.
I disagree entirely with making it mandatory.
But I understand the need and desire to hedge the healthy people into the pool.
I think they are disproportionally charged, though.
The other option is government run and funded med centers. it eats taxes. middle class people with insurance still foot most of the bill this way too, so its in fact worse.
There's no good answer.
Either you're a heartless bastard or you're a socialist. There's really no middle ground with this topic.
I think everyone should have access to AFFORDABLLE care.
I don't think it should be required.
But I also think that if you can't pay at time of service, you are left to die/rejected as that is the choice you made when you decided to not purchase.
That's fine for most 'sick' cases until you come in 99% dead from a car wreck and your wallet is no where to be found or burned down.... do they hunt for your insurance card, or save your life?
And I think that's where I differ and would like to see DIFFERENT types of insurance.
3-tiers.
1st tier is mandated, but not by law or penalty, but rather as a sales tax so EVERYONE who buys something pays in including illegals and hookers who don't pay taxes. I propose a 1% federal sales tax on ALL items, including food, etc that are normally exempt. A few cents a 100000000 times a day adds up nicely and hurts no one.
This tax will fund only catastrophic stuff like accidents, car wrecks, broken arms, bullet wounds, and so forth were an otherwise normally healthy person becomes immediately in serious condition. Additionally, it will cover anyone born with something.... like cystic fibrosis, muscle dystrophy, and things of the sort. Refuse all lawsuits on these events, thereby reducing costs astronomically. "If you want our help, you take it at your own risk". Opt out by wearing a medical bracelet that states you don't want care and leave you to die. Your choice, but you still pay for the 1% tax.
I would then offer optional tier 2 and tier 3 coverage through whatever medium consumers want. work, benefits, online, etc... Cap lawsuits. Reduce malpractice costs.
Teir 2 would cover non-accident 'sick care'. Cancer, heart attacks, etc etc.
And since most of these are results of poor choices, I would fund the majority of these by sales tax on the leading items that contribute to them.
Tobacco, alcohol, corn syrup, trans fats, sodium nitrate, etc etc... any item containing any of these items pays 5% at the mfg'er level, there by increasing the price of the product and making healthier choices more cost-competitive, while funding the program by those who are statically more likely to use it. Avoid the tax by consuming better. This promotes a healthier nation as well.
Due to the consumption tax, rates for this level can be kept low and affordable for those who don't consume a lot of or any of the black label items, but want coverage.
The list will be the tricky part on this item. It will always change. I suggest using 'families' of products, such as 'non-cane based sugars' so they won't make rice syrup, wheat syrup, etc etc to avoid the tax on corn syrup.
Tier 3 includes your maintenance programs. normal doc visits, pills, flu/colds, etc.
This is the #1 payer cost. I suggest the idea of pre-paying for reduced rate.
ie, if you know you go twice a year, you buy 2 doc visits on your plan at 50% cost.
if you go a 3rd time, it costs full price.
this allows you to hedge yourself and mimics some HSA style funds that let you only pay for what you really need, but if something comes up, you can still get treated.
I think something like this, while a ton of red tape involved, and not exactly 'libertarian', could work well for the country. I think its a good compromise of coverage and payments. I think it's a plan that allows those who need it but can't afford it to get coverage at better prices without a subsidy paid for on the backs of those who already pay for their own.
But, progressives will immediately dismiss it as regressive.
And it is.
But it has to be.
Part of the problem is, everyone thinks they can drink, smoke, skydive, fight in combat, and ride motorcycles until they're 127 years old. Humans break down way before we want to, but if we can just get everyone else to pay for that surgery that didn't exist 5 years ago, we can live a "full life". It's nonsense.
You now surmise that insurance is necessary because of the fact that gov taxes are ridiculously high especially on the elderly. I'm not convinced. I think health insurance is like vomit, it's not the cause of the unpleasantness, it's just a visible symptom of the greater sickness. You have a government that promises "social security" then ensures our society is so insecure that the fear and terror they cause can be capitalized upon.
We as Americans hear about MRIs, stem cell therapy, and other medical technology which 99.99% of humans on the planet will never be able to afford, and would normally never have access to, and we demand that they be subsidized and socialized so that we too can get an organ transplant and squeeze out another 2-3 years of heavily medicated existence. Yet broke ass villagers world over are happier and healthier in the 30, 40, or 50 years they manage than our elderly who have their hearts hotwired, their joints are robotic, and their body chemistry is dependant upon a whole cabinet full of experimental synthetics. You wanna talk about a God complex...
You now surmise that insurance is necessary because of the fact that gov taxes are ridiculously high especially on the elderly. I'm not convinced. I think health insurance is like vomit, it's not the cause of the unpleasantness, it's just a visible symptom of the greater sickness. You have a government that promises "social security" then ensures our society is so insecure that the fear and terror they cause can be capitalized upon.
We as Americans hear about MRIs, stem cell therapy, and other medical technology which 99.99% of humans on the planet will never be able to afford, and would normally never have access to, and we demand that they be subsidized and socialized so that we too can get an organ transplant and squeeze out another 2-3 years of heavily medicated existence. Yet broke ass villagers world over are happier and healthier in the 30, 40, or 50 years they manage than our elderly who have their hearts hotwired, their joints are robotic, and their body chemistry is dependant upon a whole cabinet full of experimental synthetics. You wanna talk about a God complex...
I've said nothing about what is right or wrong or what should be covered or not covered.
I've only talked about the foolish statement that both you and Celerity agreed to about insurance being a scam and not serving a purpose.
I don't encourage people to insure every risk. I'm a risk taker and I self insure quite a bit. Is my business insured? Heck yea, I can protect a million dollars of liability for $1,500/year. To not do so would be irresponsible and foolish. Do I pay for the most expensive health insurance option? Yup - I've had costly medical issues so its much cheaper for me to pay the increased premiums until those things are worked out - at which point if it makes sense, I'll boost deductibles and save the money but even that probably won't make sense because it says a whopping $20/month. I carry collision on my car because for the extra $100 a year, if I get into an at fault accident and I don't get a $20,000 check for my car - I'd feel like the schmuck I am.
I've only talked about the foolish statement that both you and Celerity agreed to about insurance being a scam and not serving a purpose.
I don't encourage people to insure every risk. I'm a risk taker and I self insure quite a bit. Is my business insured? Heck yea, I can protect a million dollars of liability for $1,500/year. To not do so would be irresponsible and foolish. Do I pay for the most expensive health insurance option? Yup - I've had costly medical issues so its much cheaper for me to pay the increased premiums until those things are worked out - at which point if it makes sense, I'll boost deductibles and save the money but even that probably won't make sense because it says a whopping $20/month. I carry collision on my car because for the extra $100 a year, if I get into an at fault accident and I don't get a $20,000 check for my car - I'd feel like the schmuck I am.
Speedracer228
......
SMH
Try operating any business without liability insurance. Want get on a job site? Send a certificate. Want to get material from a vendor? Send a certificate. Want to get $$ from a bank? Send a certificate
Lol to lump health insurance in with the rest is so far off the mark it's laughable.
The math is solid for most products, you pay in based on the likelihood of your having a claim X benefit add in expense costs and then discount for the appropriate interest (over simplified of course)
But i forgot all insurance is a scam so there is no logic to it. Actuarial science is hocum, Nothing happens to me so no worries.
Even condoms are a form of insurance that you pay for
Just pull out bruh. It's worked for centuries and people are happier when they do it.
when in doubt, don't go to debeers for her pearl necklace 
