B16 Swap is missing power

[urko]

Hello,
I'm having a problem with my B16A2 swap in my Civic EK. To get straight to the problem; the car is slower than it should be i.e. missing power. It has good low-end torque (much better than a D14 at least ) but when accelerating it just doesn't pull like it should. My 0-60 times are in the 10.xx seconds.

The car (now) runs perfectly fine.
By fine I mean it doesn't jerk or missfire, the revs match up the the speed of the car just fine.
And by "now" I mean after I changed the injectors (both sets of injectors were professionally cleaned, but with the previous set of injectors the motor wouldn't rev up from idle as smooth as it does now, it would sometimes shake just a tiny bit and then rev up + it had a strange and minute jerk just at 2000rpms. When I would just be cruising at 2000rpms and then try to lightly accelerate the motor would first shake and then accelerate. Also the spark plugs were white when I pulled them, which indicates lean running) With the new set of injectors all of the engine hesitation problems are GONE. It runs perfectly smooth now...with one exception (apart from still missing power)...it idles rich. You can smell it, and I see the voltage of the O2 sensor on my Hondash at 0.9V.

As I do not think the injectors are the problem (because it should be getting enough fuel with the new injectors) I have previously done the following things trying to figure out the problem:
- the compression is fine on all 4 cylinders (checked)
- the cat isn't clogged
- the timing is correct
- no vacuum leaks (that I could discover)
- PCV valve works as it should
- VTEC solenoid was cleaned and new OEM gaskets installed
- IACV was cleaned and new OEM gaskets installed
- the following things were replaced: O2 sensor, ignition coil, ignitor, spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap, throttle body assembly, different distributor, fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter, fuel pump...

I've been going crazy trying to figure out the problem in the past few months but just couldn't get to the bottom of it.

The car is getting tuned with a P28 and a wideband in a few weeks. As I do feel like it should run fine on the stock ECU I'm trying my luck with the answers here...

Attached are some images of my Hondash datalogs and engine bay (now has the stock airbox, the hot air intake was installed just for homologation).

 

[Briansol]

are you currently using the d14's ecu? it's not clear.

If so, that is likely the cause of all your issues.

Going to a p28 will require an obd1 conversion harness as well.

 

[urko]

are you currently using the d14's ecu? it's not clear.

If so, that is likely the cause of all your issues.

Going to a p28 will require an obd1 conversion harness as well.

Thank you for the answer.

No, I am using the stock B16A2 ECU (I think it's marked P2T). I also already have the conversion harness and a chipped P28 ECU with a stock B16 map on it. Hasn't made a difference at all.

 

[Briansol]

It should run perfect with the p2t, assuming that variant of the ecu doesn't have an immobilizer (it wouldn't start if it did) and the knock sensor has been wired.

But, the p28 doesn't have a knock sensor, so if it's running the same way there, it's likely not the knock sensor.

Are there any ecu codes being thrown?
Does it switch lobes into vtec?

I'm not too familiar with the D14 (we never got them here in the states)... is it a fuel injected motor? mpfi? I'm wondering if there's a fuel issue from that perspective, or a resistor box that shouldn't be there anymore...

 

[urko]

It should run perfect with the p2t, assuming that variant of the ecu doesn't have an immobilizer (it wouldn't start if it did) and the knock sensor has been wired.

But, the p28 doesn't have a knock sensor, so if it's running the same way there, it's likely not the knock sensor.

Are there any ecu codes being thrown?
Does it switch lobes into vtec?

I'm not too familiar with the D14 (we never got them here in the states)... is it a fuel injected motor? mpfi? I'm wondering if there's a fuel issue from that perspective, or a resistor box that shouldn't be there anymore...

So it actually does have the immobilizer The chip from the Immobilizer is just taped to the immobilizer reader (I think this might be the only "hack" thing done to the car for the swap to work). But again...the P28 does not have the immobilizer so it should work without it, if this was the problem.

No codes being thrown or CEL. And it does indeed switch the lobes into VTEC.

The D14 is very similar to the D15 or D16. And in terms of "technology" used on the engine, quite similar to the B series as well (both are indeed fuel injected). Will look more into the fuel system wiring tomorrow. This is quite a common swap and I've asked some people that've done the swap themselves and none had this kind of problem.

 

[Briansol]

Very strange.

If there are no codes being thrown, it likely isn't electronics related, especially across multiple ecu's.

All fingers point to something like like timing or fuel delivery. Do you know the history of the motor? was it a good running example before the swap?
Are you sure your timing isn't 180-degress out?

 

[urko]

Very strange.

If there are no codes being thrown, it likely isn't electronics related, especially across multiple ecu's.

All fingers point to something like like timing or fuel delivery. Do you know the history of the motor? was it a good running example before the swap?
Are you sure your timing isn't 180-degress out?

Don't know the full history of the motor. I just know it had 220 000km when installed in my car (confirmed). And the main service has been done just prior (timing belt replaced etc.). I'm pretty sure the timing is correct. I've pulled the valve cover and checked if all the timing marks align + checked the timing with a timing light. I doubt it would run as smoothly with the timing 180-degrees out

Probably a stupid fuel issue. I just don't understand how can it be running lean, if the O2 sensor shows it's searching for the right AFR and correcting for it

Thank you for your help in trying to figure this out.

 

[dilbeckskate]

Ah if its running smooth and no CEL just seems slow now, you prob just got used to it and 130ish whp is pretty slow comparing to any modernish vehicle lol Hopefully the tune will wake it up some

 

[TurboMirage]

i would agree... when i'm rolling in my VT or jetta they have hp/torque around 200. when i'm rolling in my kia rio, its literally slower than a plushie dog sled team.... and 1/2 the hp/tq of the other two.

 

[urko]

Ah if its running smooth and no CEL just seems slow now, you prob just got used to it and 130ish whp is pretty slow comparing to any modernish vehicle lol Hopefully the tune will wake it up some

I also thought "oh I'm just used to it" at first, but then drove my friends stock VTi and it felt much faster. Feelings aside, I still can't get over the 10 seconds it takes to reach 60mph, when it should be at least in the 8's

 

[dilbeckskate]

I also thought "oh I'm just used to it" at first, but then drove my friends stock VTi and it felt much faster. Feelings aside, I still can't get over the 10 seconds it takes to reach 60mph, when it should be at least in the 8's

A VTi makes broader power band and has modern gear ratios , it probably is faster

 

[urko]

A VTi makes broader power band and has modern gear ratios , it probably is faster

Sorry, I keep forgeting the US didn't get the VTi The B16A2 in my car was taken from an EK4 VTi model, so it should have the same power.

 

[dilbeckskate]

Sorry, I keep forgeting the US didn't get the VTi The B16A2 in my car was taken from an EK4 VTi model, so it should have the same power.

oh, well then yea your shits fucked bro lol again is it throwing a check engine light ?

 

[dilbeckskate]

hmm hopefully tune wakes er up , id throw a different basemap on it and see if changes

 

[dilbeckskate]

valve adjustment ?

 

[bigpizzaman]

what injector a u using ? the 240 from the b16 or the 180 from the d-serie ?

 

[bigpizzaman]

what injector a u using ? the 240 from the b16 or the 180 from the d-serie ?

 

[urko]

what injector a u using ? the 240 from the b16 or the 180 from the d-serie ?

They are B16 injectors for sure.

 

[urko]

Just an update: the car got tuned and it pulls like it should. The AFRs indicated it was running about 20% leaner than it should, across the entire map.