B16's Time Trial Road Racing Del Sol Overhaul Thread!!!

[vtecsir1]

Im just giving you a hard time since you have been spinning lately...(which I think is only from your rear camber)

Im running the 1 inch MC, 40/40 which I think is what you have or close to it.

I have always been worried about the rears locking with too much pad, Meris that won HC out your way I think is running DTC70 up front and DTC60 in the rear or pretty close to that. I think the biggest thing would be weight transfer.

 

[phunky.buddha]

And don't confuse warpage with pad transfer. Sometimes you just get too much material transferred from the pad to the rotor and it needs to be "scrubbed off" by re-bedding the pads. This happens more often than rotor warpage.

Yup, happens quite often. Makes me think I need more pad/rotor on the Mazda5.

LOL, thanks for the vote of confidence!

I'm running whatever the stock valve is on a 94 del sol vtec. I'm guessing its a 40/40. I am also using a 15/16 MC from an old EF Sedan on my stock booster.

You should have the 40/40 then.

 

[RoughKnight]

Question: after reading this thread a few times over, i'm starting to want to drop the entire boost project altogether and piece a b-series setup. Have any of you racers driven a aftermarket turbo setup through auto-x and daily it? Is it more strain on the motor/internals to be on/off boost like that constantly? Just a stupid idea I want to squash...

 

[B16]

Not a Honda.

But my Evo has 150,000 miles on it from DD duty and has done plenty of track days too. Just depends if it is built right and you have adequate cooling and tuning.


On another note..

I've been thinking that maybe my ducting could have caused the cracked rotors? I've done some reading and found that overcooling the brakes too fast is bad. Causes stress in the metal.

 

[phunky.buddha]

I've been thinking that maybe my ducting could have caused the cracked rotors? I've done some reading and found that overcooling the brakes too fast is bad. Causes stress in the metal.

Strong possibility. Quite a few of the successful S2000 track guys go with big brakes and NO ducting.

 

[eg6sir]

instead of having the ducting going straight at the rotor, just leave the vent up front w/ no ducting.. just so cool air can be forced in that direction still, but not right at it

 

[RoughKnight]

Or vent to just over the rotors. I had a dream and I love physics, bare with me while I explain.

If the air cooling off the rotors goes directly on metal, you could have that frying pan effect where lets say u cook eggs and immediately when your done turn on the cold water on the stick it in. A few times over and the pan will be unusable.

The rotors turn forward, having the air stretch over the top will force the air to flow around the rotor too cool off, instead of directly on it, thus creating a vacuum effect that will cool it off not as fast but evenly, since all the air will not hit at once and the force of the turning rotor will carry whatever air into the rotor ducts and rotate through the entire rotor before leaving the vacuum cycle.

Or I could be completely wrong lol

 

[awptickes]

Or vent to just over the rotors. I had a dream and I love physics, bare with me while I explain.

If the air cooling off the rotors goes directly on metal, you could have that frying pan effect where lets say u cook eggs and immediately when your done turn on the cold water on the stick it in. A few times over and the pan will be unusable.

The rotors turn forward, having the air stretch over the top will force the air to flow around the rotor too cool off, instead of directly on it, thus creating a vacuum effect that will cool it off not as fast but evenly, since all the air will not hit at once and the force of the turning rotor will carry whatever air into the rotor ducts and rotate through the entire rotor before leaving the vacuum cycle.

Or I could be completely wrong lol

Your mistake is in the Water vs. Air in thermal conductivity.

 

[RoughKnight]

Can you go into detail?

 

[Dual-500]

Your mistake is in the Water vs. Air in thermal conductivity.

Not to mention speed - as the velocity of the vehicle changes, so does the air flow. Rotor is turning when air flow is present so the cooling effect or heat dissapation should be distrubuted somewhat evenly across the high temp area of the rotors.

Can air flow cause damage to a moving rotor? I would think not. Much less than the effect of the "Hot Spot" the shoes have where they make contact with the rotors.

 

[B16]

I think of the scrambled egg then cold water idea.

I'm guessing the intense braking (only exacerbated by stickier tires than I've ran in the past) are generating a shit ton of heat. Then I have this 2" duct from a naca duct on my bumper pointing right at that rotor down a long straight up to around 120mph.

Maybe I'll pull the nozzle of the duct much further back.

I really need to check temps to track the effect..

 

[GSRCRXsi]

get some of those pimp ass DBA rotors that have temp paint on them

 

[Dual-500]

I think of the scrambled egg then cold water idea.

I'm guessing the intense braking (only exacerbated by stickier tires than I've ran in the past) are generating a shit ton of heat. Then I have this 2" duct from a naca duct on my bumper pointing right at that rotor down a long straight up to around 120mph.

Maybe I'll pull the nozzle of the duct much further back.

I really need to check temps to track the effect..

I'm liking the direction this is headed. In aircraft, airframe hours are a consideration, but "Cycles" are also important. How many takeoffs, ascend to altitude with cabin pressurized, then descend, depressurize cabin and land.

Brakes: Heating and cooling the metal will cause fatigue. Cycles. How hot, how fast was it heated, how cool, how fast was it cooled and so on.

The real question here may be if additional cooling is removed what will be the net result? Too much heat accumulation on a given track, decrease in brake performance?

Will less cooling cause an appreciable extension of the lifespan by limiting the adverse effects of the cycling?

The tires can play a huge role in brake system loading and heat.

The answer may involve lots of testing and data collecting.

Certainly worth some experimentation.

 

[B16]

I did the ducting before I switched to these tires. I should try running with them blocked off. The only negative effect I'll get is brake fade.

Previously I my brakes would only fade at the very end of a session if at all. The problem I was trying to solve was going through pad material so quickly. Seems the hotter the brakes operated at, the more material would be consumed.

I've also switched brake compounds nearly a dozen times. I think I've tried just about every race pad out there. I only now think I've found the set I really like.

So many variables...

 

[Dual-500]

^ That's about how it usually goes - change one thing and it affects three or more others.....and stuff one would not foresee. Yet, in hindsight it all makes sense!

 

[vtecsir1]

what fluid are you running? what pad? I might have missed that.

Im going to try blocking off half my front ducts at my next event that way I can easily close or open depending on how the brakes feel.

Got my pistons today, thanks!

 

[B16]

I'm running Motul RBF 600 and Hawk DTC-60 pads.

 

[vtecsir1]

Hmm, Im running HT-10s and Motul 600 as well. I was looking into running the DTC-60s but it seems I have plenty of brake right now.

What do you think of the DTC-60s?

 

[B16]

I'm really liking the DTC-60's. I've only done 1 event on them though. I haven't tried the HT-10's yet. But I've been through every other Ferodo, Hawk, Cobalt Friction, PF, Carbotech pad there is.. lol

 

[vtecsir1]

I'm really liking the DTC-60's. I've only done 1 event on them though. I haven't tried the HT-10's yet. But I've been through every other Ferodo, Hawk, Cobalt Friction, PF, Carbotech pad there is.. lol

HT-10 is a less aggressive pad in comparison to yours.

Its like in between a hp race and a dtc-60 which has worked for my over kill brakes I have so far. I really didn't get a chance to use the stickier tires and push so I don't know if I need to go to the DTCs yet or not...I'm assuming I will once I start pushing these Hoosiers.