Daily Driver/ Street Racer

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All i meant by "ricers" is people that have all show and no go, i think there are a few with swaps for b16a's and they are in 5g civics. I just think these people could use a lesson and my d16y8 just isnt going to do that!
i used to have a 99 si, i loved the b16, until i got beat by a couple of b16 hybrids with the same mods. i mean, i was a decent driver, but the power:weight ratio is hard to beat. which is why i would suggest the b18c (gsr) you would have a decent set up considering it's a h/b, and if you wanted to do turbo down the line, the gsr is a good powerplant to start out from. i'm not bashing the b16 by any means, that's a dope engine as well. but, save your money and get a gsr, you'll be happier in the long run with the better hp and torque, peace!
I have been looking at the stats for the gsr and for the itr and it seems like the itr is a better engine for swaping. Also which of the two is better for turbocharging and why?
depends on how much you want to spend
the ITR is a great swap if your planing to run NA
the GSR is better to boost... the ITR has a high compression ratio and long duration on the cams... these things are not ideal for boost applications... so after you spend 5000 on the ITR engine you now need to spend another 1000 on replacing the pistons with lower compression ones, and replacing the cams with ones with shorter duration... so just to make the ITR as "boost friendly" as the GSR already is... you need to spend about 3000 more... and the tranny is a little too close to be ideal for boost too... theres another 1000 or so for a GSR tranny or 500 for an LS tranny
word up! if i were you and i would be going turbo, i would go with gsr, make it n/a for now, then when you come up on ends, get a turbo setup for it. if not, you can always get the itr and give me all the pistons and cams when you boost..! :D
It seems like in the long run the ITR will give me the most power, is this true? Based on the stock Horsepower of the ITR and GSR engines it seems like the ITR will give the most power after it is boosted, it just seems like it will take more cash to make the ITR boost friendly.

Basically will a boosted GSR be able to make as much power as a boost friendly boosted ITR? :blink:
if your doing a full build then both will be within a few HP of eachother... the blocks are the same... if your replacing the internals anyway then the stock pistong dont mean shit so for sake of arguement we will say the blocks are more or less identical.... now with the top end.... the ITR head is PnP'd from the factory... this again doesnt mean much, cuz more than likely you will be doing this anyway... cams again dont mean shit cuz you will/should be replacing them anyway, neither of them are great for FI... so basicly what it comes down to is the same setup with a singke runner intake manifold or a dual rail intake manifold... the GSR and Si heads(same basic head as the ITR without the PnP) were tested and put out almost identical numbers... so it really doesnt seem to make too much of a difference here either... so it pretty much comes down to how much do you want to initially invest
Originally posted by civicspeed@Feb 9 2003, 04:00 PM
All i meant by "ricers" is people that have all show and no go, i think there are a few with swaps for b16a's and they are in 5g civics. I just think these people could use a lesson and my d16y8 just isnt going to do that!

Just so you know, your D16y8 could dish out a lesson they wouldnt forget. I've never met anyone who was happy being beat by a D series if they've done a DOHC swap. You can turbo a D16y8 and get some damn good power. My new block engine is a built D16y8 running a D16z6 head. Just look into it, may not be your route but it definetly does the job well.

Another thing i thought i'd mention is if you do go turbo your going to have to address a problem that i see very little talk about on this site. The clutch. No matter what set up you run, if its turbo, you'll need a very capable clutch. An ACT, Exedy, CM, Centerforce street disk with any one of their pressure plates simply WON'T handle the power. They will slip under high stress loads and you'll find yourself buying a a new one in at least 1-1.5 years. You could go puck, but i guarantee you'll buy yourself a few new transaxles or a new flywheel. Pucked clutches are commonly made of a ceramic composte friction material and its death to tranny's and axles. Look into a Company called Macleod, they make THE most amazing street disk. I just recieved mine (the Rev Loc II) and its made of Sintered Iron and use a composite spring system thats Lifetime guaranteed NEVER to slip for ANY reason. It is also a street disk designed for professional race use (this company is devoted). Just an FYI for all those interested in FI build-ups.

anyway, continue on with the DOHC debate.

Good luck!!!

You're right- we don't talk about clutch replacement much here. I guess we just assume that everyone upgrades the clutch anyway on swap or turbo... I know I did.

I sure hope people are replacing there clutch's :wacko:
Id hate to think what happens to those people who skiped that step. Clutch selection can be as important as engine/car selection.

So basically the only difference between the GSR and ITR is the Port and polish after you rebuild them?

So if i want to run NA then the ITR is the way to go but if i plan on turbo i will get the same amount of power from either engine?

Also what all is needed to do a good engine swap?

I would love to keep my d-series engine but it has 150k miles on it so im goin for the DOHC.
The ITR and the GSR use totally different heads... the cams are different, the combustion chamber sizes and shapes are different, and the intake manifolds are different. If you're going NA, get the ITR... or if you plan to spend more cash, start with the GSR and upgrade from there. If you're boosting, just get the GSR engine. It's cheaper, and you can boost a little more... plus the cams have less overlap, which is better for boost tuning. If you're on a budget and want to boost, just get the B18 non-VTEC engine.
Initially i will be running an non-turbo setup, but i may go turbo somewhere down the line. I want to be able to win races while my engine is NA but I also want an engine that will put out good power if i do decide to go turbo. :unsure:
Originally posted by civicspeed@Feb 13 2003, 05:25 PM
Which will be faster an NA ITR or a turbo GSR??

Turbo GSR.

It is HARD to get more horsepower out of the ITR because the engine is tuned at the factory with very optimal parts put into it. Thats why it costs so much, the pistons, cams, everything are designed to be a high performance engine stock.
You are paying for those pieces. If you boosted it and replaced those pieces, you just wasted thousands of dollars.

The GSR - Turbo will always be faster in the long run because you can build it up without turbo and get decent horsepower, but if you re-sleeved it and built it with turbo components then all you have to do is turn the boost dial and you have more horsepower (until detonation of course, but this will (should be) figured out when you get it dyno'd).
I think the question no one really brought up is, "what exactly are you going to do with your car? Is it strictly going to be for street racing? auto crossing? road racing, etc??? Is it going to spend any time at the strip?"
Find out exactly what you want to do with it first. In my opinion here is what each engine is good for:

B16- auto x / road racing / descent street racing motor
B18C- street racing / road racing / good drag motor
H22- street racing / great drag motor

If you want all out power/torque out of the box for around $3K and still have a good motor to boost, IMO you should go with the H22. I'm a huge fan of that motor cuz that's what I want. Yes it's a little heavier but the power-to-weight ratio more than makes up for it. And don't forget that you can still slap a turbo on it.
-I think with the H22/turbo can hit the 250-280hp mark when it's properly tuned.
Originally posted by rsaeini@Feb 13 2003, 08:40 PM
-I think with the H22/turbo can hit the 250-280hp mark when it's properly tuned.

250 - 280???
you could do that with a porly tuned B16/turbo

you can EASILY push well over 400 with a properly tuned H22

You can hit 250-280 with a well built and tuned boosted d-series, so a boosted H would be WAY more.