can we please just let them fail?

[UNDR8D]

Yeah, but the end of the line is profits.

Toyota/Honda/Nissan profits go back to Japan, where as GM, Ford and Dodge profits go back to American pockets.

This is a myth. If Japanese automakers were privately owned this would be true. They are publicly traded companies who's owners are the thousands of shareholders located worldwide. Also, parts and vehicle manufacturing take place in many parts of the U.S. This means that American citizens earn paychecks and cycle the money back into their local (and national) economies. The only "profits" that go back to Japan are the salaries of the Japanese employees, board of directors, etc. There is no corporate giant hoarding bags of money.

As far as U.S. automakers, the same theories apply. If the number at the bottom of the income statement is positive, it is property of the shareholders, not some ambiguous corporate figure or proprietary residual claimant. Also, how many of them source parts internationally and have international plants? All of them? Global platform sharing between manufacturers and international divisions blur the lines even further.

 

[91crx]

Honda has a Ohio plant. Get it, "Ohio"(good morning in Japanese). They make the Accords. On the older models(90-93 CB7s I believe) they had a Honda of America, or something like that, badge on the Accords that were sold overseas.

yea because its cheaper for them to build them here and sell them here, but they arent designed in the U.S. and are still built as strong as ever.

 

[Bkkfarang]

if GM had listened to the market , and given the public the quality and styles the public wanted they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place . 20 years of crappy quality , no fun FWD , questionably styled cars , ( yes GM has built a few good models don'ty flame me ) i say let them die for being stupid , but the sad truth is they will just kill off another gm division . remeber oldsmobile i do , Say no to govement bail outs

 

[jeffie7]

I'll tell you what if. White trash middle America will sacrifice MPG for a truck any day. Half of the remaining people are still too vain to worry about practicality and savings..

That's why GM and Ford are having problems selling their trucks even under MSRP with very good incentives, I've heard from a local that some of the ford trucks that were near 30K are now low teens and still sitting.

Just goes to show, people ARE cutting back and not buying trucks and suvs as they use to, look at both ford and chevys sales #s they're all down.

You can assume what you just said, but in truth, its pretty far off. At least with new car buyers.

 

[INJEN78]

Honda has a plant in the US?

Honda, as far as I know, is canada or japan only.

Unless thats changed in recent years. I wouldn't buy an american made honda. Or canadian made, for that matter.

i believe theres one in NC as well or whatever state is right above it...
i remember on my last trip to SC we went past HONDA RD. and my mom pointed it out,,there was a fucking huge factory there

 

[UNDR8D]

That's why GM and Ford are having problems selling their trucks even under MSRP with very good incentives, I've heard from a local that some of the ford trucks that were near 30K are now low teens and still sitting.

Just goes to show, people ARE cutting back and not buying trucks and suvs as they use to, look at both ford and chevys sales #s they're all down.

You can assume what you just said, but in truth, its pretty far off. At least with new car buyers.

You are right. There has been a shift towards fuel economy and practicality. Still though, I have met far too many indifferent people to believe that it is a significant change. Perhaps among new car buyers, given the option, they choose efficiency. The emotional bond between people and their trucks though...it's a powerful thing...

 

[K2e2vin]

i believe theres one in NC as well or whatever state is right above it...
i remember on my last trip to SC we went past HONDA RD. and my mom pointed it out,,there was a fucking huge factory there

I've never heard of a Honda plant around here, only a BMW one which is in South Carolina.

 

[George777]

I don't know if it's a factory or just a parts distributor, but there is some big Honda building in CT. Right down the road from the airport. Nothing but tobacco fields separate it...

 

[SlushboxTeggy]

I'm with Blanco, grab the torches, pitchforks, and M-80s.

 

[BrutalB83]

Honda has a plant in the US?

Honda, as far as I know, is canada or japan only.

Unless thats changed in recent years. I wouldn't buy an american made honda. Or canadian made, for that matter.

You probably already have...Hondas been building in Ohio for a long time now...

Yeah, but the end of the line is profits.

Toyota/Honda/Nissan profits go back to Japan, where as GM, Ford and Dodge profits go back to American pockets.

Actually, the profit destination is NOT the "end of the line" as far as benefits to the American economy.

If Honda is supplying Americans with jobs, does that not stimulate the US economy? If Honda is buying American made parts, does that not stimulate the US economy? If Honda is building production facilities here in the states, does that not stimulate the US economy?

The converse is true as well. If GM is shipping assembly jobs to Mexico and buying foreign made parts (which they do quite often), does that not negatively impact the US economy?

The geographic origin of the company isn't the end all of the situation. It's not that clear cut. Plus, as UNDR8D pointed out, Honda is a publicly traded entity, so the true owners are the shareholders, and they're not necessarily Japanese. A lot of them most likely are, but not necessarily...

 

[Briansol]

I know a lot of you wouldn't piss on your fellow American to put out a fire, because you feel that you're just that much better.

you know me.. i'm all about 'fuck 'em all' but even "I" agree that cutting education funding is a horrible idea. That's quite possibly the one socialistic policy i agree with.

 

[99sidude]

Honda has plants all over Ohio. West of C-bus in Marysville is an enormous plant where they built the accord, tl, tsx, rdx, and crv. Down the road is the American division of Honda R&D. In Anna, Ohio, they have an engine plant where they are making v6 motors and k24's.

A couple people I know work there. A girl I used to date got hired on as a chemical engineer on the paint line. I am going to try to get an engineering job there myself when I graduate at the end of the year.

The funny thing is, the GM's, Fords, and and Chrysler's are extremely picky when it comes to hiring engineers. Basically you have to be at the top of your class coming out of schools like MIT, Michigan and the likes. Honda and Toyota are far less selective.

I don't think its a lack of talent at American makers. I believe the reasons they struggle are because of union costs and inefficiency, and Oil politics influencing corporate decisions.

 

[phyregod]

Marysville, OH.. Accord, TL, RDX, and motorcycles
East Liberty, OH.. Civic, Element, and CRV
Anna, OH.. Engine plant. 4-cylinder / V6 and accessories
Timmonsville, SC.. ATVs and PWCs
Lincoln, AL.. Odyssey, Pilot, "light truck" and v-6 engines
Swepsonville, NC.. Engines for Lawnmowers, Snow throwers, Tillers, Trimmers and water pumps.
Russels Point, OH.. Transmissions

Los Angeles, CA.. Research and Development
Raymond, OH.. Research and Development

Greensboro, NC.. HondaJet manufacturing.
Reston, Va.. HondaJet Jet engine manufacturing

The rest of the big buildings you see are "American Honda Motor Co. Inc" buildings where pencil pushers sit all day and try to figure out how to sell, finance, and distribute them.

 

[D16Civic]

Chrysler is in the shitter.

+1. A report came out of Europe on Tuesday saying that Chrysler was on the brink of bankruptcy. They just optioned a $25 billion line of credit from Daimler and Cerberus, and their fleet of vehicles is being reduced by 5 models. I also just read an article the other day from some auto analyst saying Chrysler shows signs of being broken up and sold off in pieces, basically they aren't refreshing their vehicles, and their new model pipeline for 3 and 4 years down the road is a fraction of what it should be.

In terms of the unions, they are indeed what's dragging down the automakers. With the recent American Axle strike, they were asking people to take a 50% pay cut. One guy said he just didn't know how he could survive on 14-15 bucks an hour. He of course had new vehicles, house, 2 kids and stay at home wife. Well, join the fucking club buddy. Tell the wife to get a job, and live within your budget. I currently make 15 bucks an hour, and bust my ass 6 days a week, my wife makes 18 an hour 40 hours a week. We pay the bills based on both of us working 40, and all my overtime (20-30 hours a week) goes to savings, college fund, retirement etc. etc.

These UAW guys have it made. Everybody hears about the layoffs, but what few fail to realize is they still get 95% of their salary while on layoff. I know a guy who's been layed off for like 65% of the last 5 years, and has no financial issues whatsoever.

The Big 3 can survive, but they have to break the unions, and hire at lower wages, which is what the sticking point in the most recent negotiations was. Through bankruptcy, they could actually get the courts to order that they can only afford to pay their employees, say 70-75% of their wage for X amount of time, until they are financially liquid and profitable.

 

[totalburnout]

You're on par with what you've said, except that the court does not order how employee wages are structured.

Bankruptcy, does however, allow the company to negotiate Union contracts. These negotiations are a function of the company essentially saying, if you don't negotiate your contracts then you will be out of a job shortly. The company basically threatens to liquidate itself unless the Union works with them - the employees would be out jobs and many of the employees, who are share holders, would have much of their total net worth depleted if the company were to go under.

The airline industry is notorious for filling for bankruptcy and then negotiating Union contracts.

I will be the first and foremost person to blame the UAW for many of the American auto makers problems, but senior management (which is not unionized) is also to blame. Poor strategic planning and a lack of understanding of what the American consumer truly desires is at the heart of the US automakers' problems.

When Honda setup facilities in the United States, engineers from Honda actually went and spoke with customers at dealerships and also customers who currently owned Honda and competitor products. They analyzed the market and then aligned their car production with the needs of the US citizen. Toyota and other foreign companies have done the same sort of research.

Maynards The End of Detroit is a good read on the history of US automakers and foreign automakers in the US.

 

[D16Civic]

You're on par with what you've said, except that the court does not order how employee wages are structured.

Bankruptcy, does however, allow the company to negotiate Union contracts.

I stand corrected in terms of the bankruptcy. I knew I was in the ballpark, but didn't do the research I should have.

The upper echelon executives clearly share the blame as well. Too many years of building too shitty vehicles. I say this as the owner(lessee) of a Saturn. However, I will say one of the main selling points of this vehicle was the GM Discount we receive through a family member. The Aura was the only product from GM that appealed to us. We needed something with 4 doors, decent on gas, basically a family vehicle, and our other options were the Impala, which is a piece of shit, HHR, which is waaaay overpriced in terms of monthly payments and too small, and the previous gen. Malibu, which was a tinny piece of garbage. The Aura is a nice driving, Euro styled and engineered car, and that is what Ford, GM, and Chrysler need.

I also believe it's totally hypocritical of American Axle so sit down and tell the UAW they have to accept a 50% pay cut, and then weeks later they pay Richard Dauch his bajillion dollar performance bonus. I don't have a problem with a person making as much as they can, and I certainly wouldn't turn it down, I just think it sends a bad message considering the times and business climate they claim to be dealing with.

 

[DarkHand]

that is far too logical.
How unamerican of you.

 

[VTEC_CBR]

Life lesson #3556, dont take foreign car to Chrysler factory - NASIOC
The plant in question here is in Fenton, MO another suburb of St. Louis not too far from me. I'm sorry, but no uneducated jackass deserves $45-50/hr for standing around and screwing in bolts. Out of the big 3, GM is the only one making a good effort to save themselves. Their American engineers are worthless, but they're doing a good job of bringing over some great cars from their foreign line-up. Ford has the ability to do the same(compare the Mondeo to the Fusion) but they're not. Chrysler, they can fuck off. Having the 300, Magnum, and Charger based on a MB platform and it's still a bucket of fail.