can we please just let them fail?

[jeffie7]

How about GM drops every car brand and sticks with a single car brand.
we'll call that car Chevy.

ok now, this one company, Chevy, stops making trucks and suvs and sticks with making nothing but cheap, high mpg cars that are placed right above the Korean cars and just under the Japanese cars.

What if.....

 

[invisibledemon]

jeffie,
that is far too logical.
how unamerican of you.

 

[jeffie7]

jeffie,
that is far too logical.
how unamerican of you.

If GM dropped every single car and truck but the Saturn line up, I bet they'd do good.

 

[jeffie7]

They'd have to improve their 100k mile throw-away reliability, though. Unless they already have, in which case my point is invalid.

they offer a 100K mile warranty across the board.

 

[EGProject]

Every part of GM that isn't rapidly expanding (i.e., Saturn) is spending money like it's going out of style. the investors keep throwing money at problems and hoping they fix it.

It's not working. GM (and the other domestic auto makers) are in trouble because of...
A)Bad product
B)Letting auto unions have their way with $28 and hour line workers, full paid pensions, shitty workmanship and cost over-runs.
C)The breakdown of the "Buy American" scheme...(with gas prices like this, who gives a shit? Not to mention BMW,Honda,Hyundai, Toyota and Nissan combined employ more US workers than GM and Ford...)

The end is comming, and has been for some time. While GM has been getting a few things right (bringing the Zeta platform over, making Saturn worth while) - they still put too much reliance on their trucks and SUV's, and they didn't dedicate enough time to build a world-class compact car. The Impalla was a step in the right direction - but it still is crap compared to a Camry, an Altima or an Accord.

They can build a 650whp ZR-1 with Ferrari brakes for under 100k, but they STILL can't build a decent midrange car.

Let them fail. Hopefully an Asian subsidary will buy them out, liquidate their entire workforce and start from scratch.

 

[awptickes]

You're forgetting the ramifications of GM dying. Look at the most popular brands in germany:
VW
Opel

Guess who makes Opel? You're right. It's GM. The Opel Astra (The most widely sold Opel car) is sold in the US under Saturn. But seriously, Opel is in trouble even overseas. There's just no incentive to buy an Opel here.


Edit: Even if you ca n't read german, take a look at the Opel home-page. Then take a look at the saturn home-page.

 

[UNDR8D]

How about GM drops every car brand and sticks with a single car brand.
we'll call that car Chevy.

ok now, this one company, Chevy, stops making trucks and suvs and sticks with making nothing but cheap, high mpg cars that are placed right above the Korean cars and just under the Japanese cars.

What if.....

I'll tell you what if. White trash middle America will sacrifice MPG for a truck any day. Half of the remaining people are still too vain to worry about practicality and savings. My room mate owns a diesel Suburban, a diesel 2500HD with 38s, and an 03 Jetta. Diesel is like $4.60 a gallon. Guess who doesn't drive the Jetta...ever...

It's about time that the American auto worker got off his laurels and started building something worth buying. It's gotten to the point where they've patted themselves on the back for so long about "building American" that they've broken their own collective arm. Either be competitive or kindly fuck off.

Yes. In these days of fluid globalization the concept of "made in America" has lost a lot of it's relevance.

A great example is the area of the country I live in. These people are still bitter about losing their market share of the steel industry to more nimble, efficient, and cost-conscious international producers. Instead of reorganizing their practices to be competitive, they've opted to continue riding their very tall horse. It hasn't worked out well. I swear these mills lay off more people every month. This is exactly what GM has done. Not until recently did they finally surrender to the fact that the 50's business model was no longer relevant. Their charm wore off and people stopped wanting to buy GM just for the sake of buying GM. And we all know about late model GMs (read Buick Century, Pontiac Gran Am, Chevy Cavalier) .

You're forgetting the ramifications of GM dying. Look at the most popular brands in germany:
VW
Opel

Guess who makes Opel? You're right. It's GM. The Opel Astra (The most widely sold Opel car) is sold in the US under Saturn. But seriously, Opel is in trouble even overseas. There's just no incentive to buy an Opel here.


Edit: Even if you ca n't read german, take a look at the Opel home-page. Then take a look at the saturn home-page.

On that note, GM. The economy doesn't NEED them and neither do the workers. The global brands can be sold off. GM being liquidated though would have the effect on American morale of a great president being assassinated or the Mexicans invading California and turning it into part of Mexico...oh wait...

 

[Sabz5150]

I'll tell you what if. White trash middle America will sacrifice MPG for a truck any day. Half of the remaining people are still too vain to worry about practicality and savings. My room mate owns a diesel Suburban, a diesel 2500HD with 38s, and an 03 Jetta. Diesel is like $4.60 a gallon. Guess who doesn't drive the Jetta...ever...

Ah, we've found the problem! Again, I will just sit and smile while watching this problem solve itself... $5... $6... $7... $8... I don't care. Suffer.

Yes. In these days of fluid globalization the concept of "made in America" has lost a lot of it's relevance.

A great example is the area of the country I live in. These people are still bitter about losing their market share of the steel industry to more nimble, efficient, and cost-conscious international producers. Instead of reorganizing their practices to be competitive, they've opted to continue riding their very tall horse. It hasn't worked out well. I swear these mills lay off more people every month. This is exactly what GM has done. Not until recently did they finally surrender to the fact that the 50's business model was no longer relevant. Their charm wore off and people stopped wanting to buy GM just for the sake of buying GM. And we all know about late model GMs (read Buick Century, Pontiac Gran Am, Chevy Cavalier) .

Funny thing is... what's gonna make us competitive on our home turf is high gas prices. The domestic steel industry has been booming as of recent since the cost of shipping overseas has damn near quadrupled.

On that note, GM. The economy doesn't NEED them and neither do the workers. The global brands can be sold off. GM being liquidated though would have the effect on American morale of a great president being assassinated or the Mexicans invading California and turning it into part of Mexico...oh wait...

Let 'em burn. They make crappy decisions, they need to deal with it. MY tax dollars better not go to bailing out another lobbyist infested corporation while the taxpayer "Bear"s the weight.

 

[UNDR8D]

Ah, we've found the problem! Again, I will just sit and smile while watching this problem solves itself... $5... $6... $7... $8... I don't care. Suffer.

Werd. I don't care either. A tank of gas lasts me more than two weeks. The difference between $4 and $6 on a 12 gallon tank is $24. On a Ram 3500HD with a fuckin' 50 gal tank and 44s though...

Funny thing is... what's gonna make us competitive on our home turf is high gas prices. The domestic steel industry has been booming as of recent since the cost of shipping overseas has damn near quadrupled.

They will help but they are not the solution. Why isn't Chrysler in the shitter? Because they make great cars that invoke emotion and desire in people. The same can be said of Cadillac, GM's most profitable division. In these times of impersonal communication and cultural ambiguity a boring fleet of vehicles is going to receive little applause.

Let 'em burn. They make crappy decisions, they need to deal with it. MY tax dollars better not go to bailing out another lobbyist infested corporation while the taxpayer "Bear"s the weight.

Werd again. I am a firm believer in letting market forces determine outcomes. I was just commenting on the potential outcome.

 

[Sabz5150]

Werd. I don't care either. A tank of gas lasts me more than two weeks. The difference between $4 and $6 on a 12 gallon tank is $24. On a Ram 3500HD with a fuckin' 50 gal tank and 44s though...

I can only imagine. Wow.

I'll say that I am not trying to make this into a "I wanna see the rich burn in the back pocket", but we as a whole need to cut back. Sure, you might be able to afford the gas in that monster, but seriously... drive something a bit more economical. If not for yourself, for the rest of us and America. Every little bit helps.

They will help but they are not the solution. Why isn't Chrysler in the shitter? Because they make great cars that invoke emotion and desire in people. The same can be said of Cadillac, GM's most profitable division. In these times of impersonal communication and cultural ambiguity a boring fleet of vehicles is going to receive little applause.

I was speaking of domestic blue-collar jobs... steel workers, machine shops, etc. The bread and butter of America's industrial districts. However I will agree with you on the car perspective. Also, people are starting to see that fuel efficiency isn't something to be overlooked. The F-150 was surpassed by the friggin Civic. That says something.

Werd again. I am a firm believer in letting market forces determine outcomes. I was just commenting on the potential outcome.

It'll hurt our pride, yes. Seeing America have to bury it's Detroit child will be painful, but it will send a message that we need to look at what we're doing and consider HEAVILY what we can change to make sure things like that don't happen again.

Look at the efforts during WWII. People sacrificed and knuckled down, they were asked to change and did so. What happened? We kicked more ass than anyone else in history! We need to heed that same call again, but this time not for war... this time it's for us. This time it's for America.

 

[UNDR8D]

Fuckin' right. If GM knows that they are going to be bailed out every time they fuck up, what incentive do they have to try hard?

 

[phyregod]

I didn't read the link, nor any of the posts.

But GMs problem is unions fucking them right up the ass. Ass hats making $30 an hour +benefits to push a fucking button that stamps out fenders. And then either retires and collects a paycheck for life, or sticks his hand in the machine and collects a paycheck for life.

Fuck that. Work. Save. Retire. Why the fuck is that so hard to understand??

 

[totalburnout]

Chrysler is in the shitter.

 

[phyregod]

That, and if GM goes in the shitter, a few thousand jobs will be lost, which will dump thousands of job hungry people on the market, which will fuck up the job market.

 

[INJEN78]

+1

My car says "Made in USA", and it's a Honda.

mines from canada

 

[phyregod]

Honda has a plant in the US?

Honda, as far as I know, is canada or japan only.

Unless thats changed in recent years. I wouldn't buy an american made honda. Or canadian made, for that matter.

 

[K2e2vin]

Honda has a Ohio plant. Get it, "Ohio"(good morning in Japanese). They make the Accords. On the older models(90-93 CB7s I believe) they had a Honda of America, or something like that, badge on the Accords that were sold overseas.

 

[jamesA]

+1

My car says "Made in USA", and it's a Honda.

Yeah, but the end of the line is profits.

Toyota/Honda/Nissan profits go back to Japan, where as GM, Ford and Dodge profits go back to American pockets.

 

[jamesA]

Honda has a plant in the US?

Honda, as far as I know, is canada or japan only.

Unless thats changed in recent years. I wouldn't buy an american made honda. Or canadian made, for that matter.

as k2 pointed out, there's a plant in Ohio. In fact I'm sure there are two plants in Ohio. One of them (I believe the motorcycle plant) is off US 33 between Decatur, IN and Columbus, OH.

 

[91crx]

what happened to american pie????


and besides, toyota and hundai are FAR more american now a days. more parts are built here, and more are assembled here than GM and ford combined. To say they are 'american' is a joke. unless of course, if you think Mexico is America too...

I agree 100% I hate when people say buy American, if they didn't make crap I would buy it, the Japanese make way better products then America and they always will.