Another KR-X... This time a full frame-up resto!
- Thread starter ComposiMo
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Celerity: Yea, i feel your pain on the 'all business' portion, but business or no, it'd still be neat, and therefore fun... hehe. However, that is a level of car that i just wouldn't feel right about being around. My next major project may wind up being a Model T roadster pcik-up with a few modern accessories... haha! THAT could be a really fun car. Dunno, we'll see how that one pans out.
recked: Yea, its my shop (http://www.iconautoparts.com)
vtecsir1: Naaaaaaah... my next shop location will be though, but just a miniature version of it... hehe. Lots of cool things happening in the future
jeffie: Thanks mang! No sense in half-assing stuff like this.
recked: Yea, its my shop (http://www.iconautoparts.com)
vtecsir1: Naaaaaaah... my next shop location will be though, but just a miniature version of it... hehe. Lots of cool things happening in the future
jeffie: Thanks mang!
No sense in half-assing stuff like this.
so how did you get started?
i am especially interested in how the business got started?
was it your fathers business?
and how did the business progress to the point that you get 20K+ restoration projects?
was it your fathers business?
and how did the business progress to the point that you get 20K+ restoration projects?
Celerity
Well-Known Member
I actually have to say, that if your work commands $20k...for a honda... you've "Made it" as a master mechanic. That speaks volumes for his work.
Because if you buy a $1000, and want to throw $20,000 at it.. Man, I don't care where you live or what you look like - You're taking a GAMBLE.
Because if you buy a $1000, and want to throw $20,000 at it.. Man, I don't care where you live or what you look like - You're taking a GAMBLE.
Recked: I started the business... my father has his own business as well, but he is also a partner in mine
"how did the business progress to the point that you get 20K+ restoration projects"
Slowly... lol. Basically, you just keep pushing yourself. The hard part is getting the first "big"project (by big, i'm not talking like this big, but maybe a one-off turbo kit or something). Once you get that, you keep pushing the boundaries each time you take in a new project. Even if it means going 'above and beyond'... its all about attention to detail. This isn't the ist $20k+ CRX i've had come through the shop, and it won't be the last. This is just the first one that we're able to publicize like this.
The biggest thing is "trust"... the customer has to trust you to do the work. I've built up a very good reputation and trust in my clients, and thats that. In fact, my 'clients' are usually friends well before they are customers, and they remain friends after the project is completed.
Celerity: Thanks for the compliment However, i'd like to think of myself more as a fabricator than a mechanic, but either way, its good Also, its only a gamble if you don't know who's doing your work... hehe. The funny thing though, is that people think that $20k for this kind of work is a lot... sure, it may be a lot if you don't know what the value of custom cars are. This stuff takes time to do, and by no means does it make sense to do this kind of work to a car like this and then give it a $600 Maaco paint job... lol.
Oh, and this project is more in the $30k range, not 20... and thats WITH a nice discount on the paint and body work
"how did the business progress to the point that you get 20K+ restoration projects"
Slowly... lol. Basically, you just keep pushing yourself. The hard part is getting the first "big"project (by big, i'm not talking like this big, but maybe a one-off turbo kit or something). Once you get that, you keep pushing the boundaries each time you take in a new project. Even if it means going 'above and beyond'... its all about attention to detail. This isn't the ist $20k+ CRX i've had come through the shop, and it won't be the last. This is just the first one that we're able to publicize like this.
The biggest thing is "trust"... the customer has to trust you to do the work. I've built up a very good reputation and trust in my clients, and thats that. In fact, my 'clients' are usually friends well before they are customers, and they remain friends after the project is completed.
Celerity: Thanks for the compliment
However, i'd like to think of myself more as a fabricator than a mechanic, but either way, its good Also, its only a gamble if you don't know who's doing your work... hehe. The funny thing though, is that people think that $20k for this kind of work is a lot... sure, it may be a lot if you don't know what the value of custom cars are. This stuff takes time to do, and by no means does it make sense to do this kind of work to a car like this and then give it a $600 Maaco paint job... lol.Oh, and this project is more in the $30k range, not 20... and thats WITH a nice discount on the paint and body work
Celerity
Well-Known Member
Paint work is an art that's being lost because of the time necessary to take to do a car completely. Ignoring the MAACO factor - cheap competition (Most people do ignore MAACO, because there is an obvious difference in quality) but if body work takes $45 an hour to perform, you would find yourself paying $8000 to paint a car. It's only a matter of time before a true craftsman succumbs to fatigue, and closes his shops or does nothing more than insurance work (Where they argued with my boss over 30 minutes of work to a door)
It's real tough to be an artist / master craftsman on items that people use not as show pieces, but as artwork. Show cars will appreciate it, but Honda owners or daily-drivers simply can't fathom those costs.
Which is why we all need to support our local car craftsman. I do work at this shop for free just to help and maybe take away alittle more experience. As it is now, my boss has been able to lay more paint because I can take care of the disassembly and small stuff for him.
It's real tough to be an artist / master craftsman on items that people use not as show pieces, but as artwork. Show cars will appreciate it, but Honda owners or daily-drivers simply can't fathom those costs.
Which is why we all need to support our local car craftsman. I do work at this shop for free just to help and maybe take away alittle more experience. As it is now, my boss has been able to lay more paint because I can take care of the disassembly and small stuff for him.
Thank you Steve for this post.
This is the EXACT reason that my Dad gave up after almost 20 years of owning his own body shop. All he ended up doing in the end was insurance work. Which DEFINITLY was not his passion that he started his business hoping to continue. Noone wanted to pay for a REAL paintjob. NOONE color matched doorjambs and engine bays anymore, let alone get full restorations that actually merited something after all was said and done. My father grew tired of it and it finally got to a point where he didn't feel like his skills were being utilized in the way he had hoped. So he shut his doors.
The work that my Dad did was amazing. He had 3 cars go through the Barrett Jackson Auto Auction. One was a SUPER RARE 1968 Ford Mustang GTX that he completly restored. Man, what a gem of a vehicle.
Real Body Work >>>>>>>>>>>>> MAACO or whatever else people are resorting to.
Celerity
Well-Known Member
I really think we're seeing the end of metal repair and paintjobs on cars. The future holds pre-colored body panels, or no repair at all. With the space race around the corner (After eradicating Radical Islam ) we'll soon forget about the passion we had for cars and turn to Space ship design - Body work and paint will be a thing of the past. The Rich will restore their 2003 BMW735 and we'll see things like the i-Drive controls sitting on blankets at parts swaps. I already see ECUs laying out at The elephant's trunk (In CT) and find piles of Konigs in barns (Figuratively). It's the changing face of human transportation.
You'll just be able to order parts in specific colors, and bolt (Or clip!) em on. Body work will be a lost art.
When I first got into cars, the import enthusiast world was the domain of the Spanish-in-america, and Wire wheels were totally in. There were a few people that retained the knowledge of making spoke wheels, but now there are what... 4 people in the US that do it ? Lost art. Jesse James assembles some of the last people on earth that do specific metal types of metal works (Check out the Lead Sled episode). It's going away and being replaced my mechanics that program, keep a laptop in their toolbox and tune by the read-outs of the Dyno (Whereas the way I learned from mechanic Bill Cust (NASCAR team leader, CHP mechanic, Sikorsky mechanic) to tune by ear). I knew a mechanic in New hampshire that tasted problems on fluids (Wierd guy, as you can imagine).
With methods changing at this pace, you decide to either be "old school" or "New School" and while each has it's merit - "New School" gets the business. It's good to be leading edge.
Composimo is Bleeding edge. He's got an eye for good design and practice. The Rotisserie is a good example of that - I would have done the RPR style with the tow-bars welded to the front, and the rotisserie in two pieces. Composimo's with the Frame attachments was the extra distance but you can transport the car to and from shops with that setup. And being transported to and from shops is going to be the extent of it's mileage for the next year.
Look at the work of these guys for the future of the hobby. Unibody restorations are a new thing in general - To do it at this scale and with this mod-approach (The K) is what starts the trend (Remember when swapping a motor from another car, in FWD was impossible? Shit, I remember when mechanics wouldn't touch Fuel Injection!)
-> Steve
) we'll soon forget about the passion we had for cars and turn to Space ship design - Body work and paint will be a thing of the past. The Rich will restore their 2003 BMW735 and we'll see things like the i-Drive controls sitting on blankets at parts swaps. I already see ECUs laying out at The elephant's trunk (In CT) and find piles of Konigs in barns (Figuratively). It's the changing face of human transportation.You'll just be able to order parts in specific colors, and bolt (Or clip!) em on. Body work will be a lost art.
When I first got into cars, the import enthusiast world was the domain of the Spanish-in-america, and Wire wheels were totally in. There were a few people that retained the knowledge of making spoke wheels, but now there are what... 4 people in the US that do it ? Lost art. Jesse James assembles some of the last people on earth that do specific metal types of metal works (Check out the Lead Sled episode). It's going away and being replaced my mechanics that program, keep a laptop in their toolbox and tune by the read-outs of the Dyno (Whereas the way I learned from mechanic Bill Cust (NASCAR team leader, CHP mechanic, Sikorsky mechanic) to tune by ear). I knew a mechanic in New hampshire that tasted problems on fluids (Wierd guy, as you can imagine).
With methods changing at this pace, you decide to either be "old school" or "New School" and while each has it's merit - "New School" gets the business. It's good to be leading edge.
Composimo is Bleeding edge. He's got an eye for good design and practice. The Rotisserie is a good example of that - I would have done the RPR style with the tow-bars welded to the front, and the rotisserie in two pieces. Composimo's with the Frame attachments was the extra distance but you can transport the car to and from shops with that setup. And being transported to and from shops is going to be the extent of it's mileage for the next year.
Look at the work of these guys for the future of the hobby. Unibody restorations are a new thing in general - To do it at this scale and with this mod-approach (The K) is what starts the trend (Remember when swapping a motor from another car, in FWD was impossible? Shit, I remember when mechanics wouldn't touch Fuel Injection!)
-> Steve
Unfortunately, the future of automotive customizing is not what it was back in the day. These days, if you throw wheels on a car, and add some stereo, then the car is "custom"... sorry, but thats not custom in my book.... thats still stock.
We live in an age of nothing more than wheels/tires, front end conversions, and maybe at the most, headlight/tailight conversions.... oh, and bolt-on lambo-door conversions.
I wanna see smoothed firewalls... subtle body line changes, how about a car with NO bondo? what about a truly custom ride that has been a little bit more 'hand crafted' than the rest... problem, is that this car probably wouldn't win a modern car show, because the judges don't even know what htey are looking at for the most part.
Hopefully we'll see much more of this kind of work in the future. This car and my own car may wind up being the last one of these i do. Hopefully it will make some people take notice, and want MORE from their cars and the work being put into them.
I look around, and see "custom work" being done by shops that should NEVER touch a car. CUSTOM goes far deeper than many people go inh this industry, and it is unfortunate.
Steve, thanks for your great words about bodywork and the rotisserie... it certainly is unique, and i hope it sets a new precedent... maybe not a 'trend', but rather just a "wanting" in enthusiasts to want more when they take their car somewhere, and HOPEFULLY be more willing to actually pay the person doing the work what that kind of work is worth.
Its funny... people see shows like Chip Fooses show, and wonder why they can do a car in a week, and then they think that since they can do it, that the project shouldn't cost much, since it only took them a week or something...
Well, lets look at that. They have at least 30 people working at least a 12 hour day each person, running 24 hours for 7 days... that is 2520 man-hours put into thatr car in a weeks-time. Most shops that do THAT caliber work are in the $60-75 per hour range, so that leaves the project with a total of $189,000 worth of labor cost......... That doesn't include a single part or material expense.
But man, this kind of work is worth it in the end. Sure, from 20ft away, this car may look similar to another blue CRX, but up-close and while driving it, and the way stuff works and fits together, this car will be one-of-a-kind 8)
Oh, and speaking of clips and bolt-on stuff.....
Over 8 pages of part numbers from American Honda, here is a picture of pretty much every clip, seal, body trim component, grommet, brake lines, etc that you'll need to bring your car back to stock-form again! (not including major interior pieces and carpet of course)
We live in an age of nothing more than wheels/tires, front end conversions, and maybe at the most, headlight/tailight conversions.... oh, and bolt-on lambo-door conversions.
I wanna see smoothed firewalls... subtle body line changes, how about a car with NO bondo? what about a truly custom ride that has been a little bit more 'hand crafted' than the rest... problem, is that this car probably wouldn't win a modern car show, because the judges don't even know what htey are looking at for the most part.
Hopefully we'll see much more of this kind of work in the future. This car and my own car may wind up being the last one of these i do. Hopefully it will make some people take notice, and want MORE from their cars and the work being put into them.
I look around, and see "custom work" being done by shops that should NEVER touch a car. CUSTOM goes far deeper than many people go inh this industry, and it is unfortunate.
Steve, thanks for your great words about bodywork and the rotisserie... it certainly is unique, and i hope it sets a new precedent... maybe not a 'trend', but rather just a "wanting" in enthusiasts to want more when they take their car somewhere, and HOPEFULLY be more willing to actually pay the person doing the work what that kind of work is worth.
Its funny... people see shows like Chip Fooses show, and wonder why they can do a car in a week, and then they think that since they can do it, that the project shouldn't cost much, since it only took them a week or something...
Well, lets look at that. They have at least 30 people working at least a 12 hour day each person, running 24 hours for 7 days... that is 2520 man-hours put into thatr car in a weeks-time. Most shops that do THAT caliber work are in the $60-75 per hour range, so that leaves the project with a total of $189,000 worth of labor cost......... That doesn't include a single part or material expense.
But man, this kind of work is worth it in the end. Sure, from 20ft away, this car may look similar to another blue CRX, but up-close and while driving it, and the way stuff works and fits together, this car will be one-of-a-kind 8)
Oh, and speaking of clips and bolt-on stuff.....
Over 8 pages of part numbers from American Honda, here is a picture of pretty much every clip, seal, body trim component, grommet, brake lines, etc that you'll need to bring your car back to stock-form again! (not including major interior pieces and carpet of course)
Quoted post[/post]]
Oh, and speaking of clips and bolt-on stuff.....
Over 8 pages of part numbers from American Honda, here is a picture of pretty much every clip, seal, body trim component, grommet, brake lines, etc that you'll need to bring your car back to stock-form again! (not including major interior pieces and carpet of course)
I shudder to think what you paid for all that...
Weeeee! update time... ok, so unfortunately the bodyshop is taking uber-forever, but i guess thats what they do best... hehe.
Anyway, so it was a LOT of work getting the car prepped for the media blaster, in that all the seam-sealer had to be removed, and undercoating removed prior to being media blasted... normally, they would just blast that stuff off, but being that this is a thin-metal car, the guy didn't feel comfy blasting away at metal that could easily warp. Soooooo, between that and welding in all the holes, then the transport over to the media blasters on the other side of the state, and then getting it in-que, and then back over here.... has actually been the bulk of the last month and a half of time.
Unfortunately, the media blasting exposed some not-so-savory things about the car... but, we're pressing onward!
Here is the car as it sat when we got it back... it was just dropped off about 10 minutes prior to me getting there to check it out.
Looks neat... but then we got closer to checking it out...
First of all, all of the light tan colored patches are bondo... due to the thin sheetmetal, the media blaster was not willing to hit the car very hard, so there is a lot of evidence left of what the car has been through... the process got most of the crap off the car, but there is still some hand-work that'll need to be done. The big thing is uncovering the bondo, to expose the crap underneath...
In this case, the first thing that stood out, was the drivers door frame, towards the front.
This car has at one point been in a rather nasty accident that took out the entire left side of the car, and now we're seeing that the door sill was folded, probably due to the door being hit hard, and so there is some bondo there covering up some nastiness... this is a big concern, as it is structural, whereas the body panels aren't nearly... we'll see more of this tomorrow.
Next of course, is the left rear 1/4 panel... they actually took off a lot of bondo here at the media blaster, but they left a whole bunch more... this entire panel was repaired due to the left-side collision that this car had suffered in the past.
Something kinda funny, is that because of the bondo, and the media blaster not wanting to hit the car too hard with material, he skipped right over the stickers that were there, and left nice impressions in the bondo of kevins Rays and Takata stickers... hehe.
Now, it was on to the BIG surprise....
The entire right rear 1/4 panel of this car had, at one time, been replaced....
This sucks, but it may be fixable as long as the alignment of everything is nice and tidy... the body guys can clean up the seams real well, and fill in some holes with metal, and try to limit the future bondo usage on the car... either that, or the panel will be replaced once again, but thats not something we're wanting to do.
Evidence of one seam, up near the hatch:
The seam on the rocker:
And the seam in the door b-pillar area:
And last but not least, the hatch that was chosen for this project has a bit of a dent in the top from being pushed down or something, and that was fixed at one time with bondo... yAy!
Otherwise, this project is about what we expected.
Other random pics:
Some left over media from the blaster:
The rear interior area:
The engine bay:
Front Wheelwell:
Rear Wheelwell:
The likely, and albeit unfortunate solution to the rear 1/4 panels will probably be to replace them both with brand new OEM panels... It IS progressing though, and hopefully a touch faster now that it is back in our hands, and under control at the bodyshop
Anyway, so it was a LOT of work getting the car prepped for the media blaster, in that all the seam-sealer had to be removed, and undercoating removed prior to being media blasted... normally, they would just blast that stuff off, but being that this is a thin-metal car, the guy didn't feel comfy blasting away at metal that could easily warp. Soooooo, between that and welding in all the holes, then the transport over to the media blasters on the other side of the state, and then getting it in-que, and then back over here.... has actually been the bulk of the last month and a half of time.
Unfortunately, the media blasting exposed some not-so-savory things about the car... but, we're pressing onward!
Here is the car as it sat when we got it back... it was just dropped off about 10 minutes prior to me getting there to check it out.
Looks neat... but then we got closer to checking it out...
First of all, all of the light tan colored patches are bondo... due to the thin sheetmetal, the media blaster was not willing to hit the car very hard, so there is a lot of evidence left of what the car has been through... the process got most of the crap off the car, but there is still some hand-work that'll need to be done. The big thing is uncovering the bondo, to expose the crap underneath...
In this case, the first thing that stood out, was the drivers door frame, towards the front.
This car has at one point been in a rather nasty accident that took out the entire left side of the car, and now we're seeing that the door sill was folded, probably due to the door being hit hard, and so there is some bondo there covering up some nastiness... this is a big concern, as it is structural, whereas the body panels aren't nearly... we'll see more of this tomorrow.
Next of course, is the left rear 1/4 panel... they actually took off a lot of bondo here at the media blaster, but they left a whole bunch more... this entire panel was repaired due to the left-side collision that this car had suffered in the past.
Something kinda funny, is that because of the bondo, and the media blaster not wanting to hit the car too hard with material, he skipped right over the stickers that were there, and left nice impressions in the bondo of kevins Rays and Takata stickers... hehe.
Now, it was on to the BIG surprise....
The entire right rear 1/4 panel of this car had, at one time, been replaced....
This sucks, but it may be fixable as long as the alignment of everything is nice and tidy... the body guys can clean up the seams real well, and fill in some holes with metal, and try to limit the future bondo usage on the car... either that, or the panel will be replaced once again, but thats not something we're wanting to do.
Evidence of one seam, up near the hatch:
The seam on the rocker:
And the seam in the door b-pillar area:
And last but not least, the hatch that was chosen for this project has a bit of a dent in the top from being pushed down or something, and that was fixed at one time with bondo... yAy!
Otherwise, this project is about what we expected.
Other random pics:
Some left over media from the blaster:
The rear interior area:
The engine bay:
Front Wheelwell:
Rear Wheelwell:
The likely, and albeit unfortunate solution to the rear 1/4 panels will probably be to replace them both with brand new OEM panels... It IS progressing though, and hopefully a touch faster now that it is back in our hands, and under control at the bodyshop
damn 
thats rather disappointing that they wouldn't blast away at it, but understandable i guess
Its kinda like digging up old bones, you find all kinds of history when you do that I guess?
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