Are we ALONE?

[highperboi]

Originally posted by EGLSHB@Nov 21 2003, 09:39 AM
well, i have to place my vote for God.

the question i have is this:

If humans evolved from chimpanzee's, why are there still chimpanzee's?

the reason being there are still chimps is because not all evolved. evolution doesnt come from each indivudual changing. it is a mutation in the gene pool which creates a different type of chimp. so it would go like this a regular chimp had a baby that was different then the others and this different chimp would have a baby which had the same difference and it would carry on to the next. this happend thousands of times which created us.

 

[saturn_boy96]

where does the new trait come from?

 

[B16]

Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 21 2003, 11:04 AM
where does the new trait come from?

the new trait would be errors in splitting the DNA.

 

[xj0hnx]

Politics, and religion, I love arguing them, but they are going to get heated if I do, so with that, I'll only say, Saturnboy, sorry you refuse to see the universe for what it is, and still cling to the belief in a god that is nothing more than mans story to help him deal with the world he doesn't understand.

Loco Honkey, that post was awesome. Keep belting them out.

And anyone that believes that there is no way in the universe there is no other life, intelligent or otherwise, wow, are you really that confident that the chemical accident called man, only happened in one place?

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by GSRCRXsi@Nov 20 2003, 06:54 PM
everything has evolved to best fit its environment. look at animals. look at finches (as darwin did) and you can clearly see that their differences are best suited for their individual environments. or look at rabits in different reigons. one could be brown and leaner while another could be pure white and a fatass. they are all adapted to their environments. hell even humans are adapted. im not being racist here, black people in africa have dark skin becasue there is more melonin (sp?) in their skin and helps protect them from the intense sun, and their larger nostrils provide more air flow for intense activity such as hunting or whatever.

Correct me if i am wrong, but dont they call this Microevolution? Religeous scientist do not discredit this, as all species are able to change within themselves - This is drastically different than a species changing into ANOTHER species. . . . .

 

[Cashizslick]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Nov 21 2003, 02:22 PM
Politics, and religion, I love arguing them, but they are going to get heated if I do, so with that, I'll only say, Saturnboy, sorry you refuse to see the universe for what it is, and still cling to the belief in a god that is nothing more than mans story to help him deal with the world he doesn't understand.


And anyone that believes that there is no way in the universe there is no other life, intelligent or otherwise, wow, are you really that confident that the chemical accident called man, only happened in one place?

You could say that Evolution "is nothing more than mans story to help him deal with the world he doesn't understand". Frankly, it takes a little more faith to believe that all the chemicals and all the right conditions occured at just the right time and reacted in just the right way to create life.
But then - ask urself, how did the chemicals or whatever we came from come into existance? Easy answer, something must have caused them to come into exitance also . . . . . but where did that come from? - Its a vicious cycle.


if life is such an accident, why do we as humans put emphasis on human life? Why do we allow our lives to be governed by morals when animals do not? Are you really just another animal? Why does death seem so unfair if it is the course we are destined to follow (why does it seem like everybody else will die but not you?)

 

[saturn_boy96]

Originally posted by B16+Nov 21 2003, 02:20 PM-->

saturn_boy96

@Nov 21 2003, 11:04 AM
where does the new trait come from?

the new trait would be errors in splitting the DNA.

what happens when DNA with errors replicates itself?

 

[SolReaver]

Originally posted by Cashizslick@Nov 21 2003, 03:00 PM
And anyone that believes that there is no way in the universe there is no other life, intelligent or otherwise, wow, are you really that confident that the chemical accident called man, only happened in one place?

Yes it does take a little faith to believe in evolution.

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by Cashizslick+Nov 21 2003, 09:00 PM-->

92b16vx

@Nov 21 2003, 02:22 PM
Politics, and religion, I love arguing them, but they are going to get heated if I do, so with that, I'll only say, Saturnboy, sorry you refuse to see the universe for what it is, and still cling to the belief in a god that is nothing more than mans story to help him deal with the world he doesn't understand.


And anyone that believes that there is no way in the universe there is no other life, intelligent or otherwise, wow, are you really that confident that the chemical accident called man, only happened in one place?

You could say that Evolution "is nothing more than mans story to help him deal with the world he doesn't understand". Frankly, it takes a little more faith to believe that all the chemicals and all the right conditions occured at just the right time and reacted in just the right way to create life.
But then - ask urself, how did the chemicals or whatever we came from come into existance? Easy answer, something must have caused them to come into exitance also . . . . . but where did that come from? - Its a vicious cycle.


if life is such an accident, why do we as humans put emphasis on human life? Why do we allow our lives to be governed by morals when animals do not? Are you really just another animal? Why does death seem so unfair if it is the course we are destined to follow (why does it seem like everybody else will die but not you?)

Like I said, I am not going to get started here because this thread will get locked up tighter than Chelsea Clinton. But for general purpose, it is called science, physics, chemistry, thermal dynamics, and a whole assortment of PROVEABLE facts, not blind faith in a faceless entity that only exist in the minds of the christian world. Oh wait they have a reason for that too don't they. Well, sorry, but I don't believe in fairytales, pegasus, budda, comics aren't real, santa doesn't exist, you can't eat a tablespoon of cinnamon in one mouthful, etc...If you want to believe that when the chemical reactions that control your bodily functions cease, and your "spirit" goes to "heaven" than go right ahead, but frankly with so many people believing in that BS I am surprised we didn't kill ourselves off long ago, though I tell you, at the rate wars between the different religions are going, hopefully it will be soon.

 

[saturn_boy96]

Originally posted by Loco Honkey+Nov 20 2003, 07:02 PM-->

saturn_boy96

@Nov 20 2003, 06:45 PM

where? what errors? double standards? if you can prove one i will belive you becasue the bible is whole and must be taken as such.

this post is strictly religious because the question was asked, i don't want to start a flame war, i am just answering Loco's questions.

The Biblical picture of God can hardly be reconciled with the Christian teaching of 'God is love'

God is a just God, too. And it is because of this that we all deserve to go to hell. none of us can say that we are perfect, or that we are even really good. who here has never lusted after some hot hollywood babe (paris hilton, anyone)? even that is considered sin, and because of that we deserve death (seperation from God, because God is perfection). but because He (God) chose to love us, He let us kill his son (Jesus Christ), so that He (Jesus Christ) could prove that he conquered death (seperation from God) for us. so that if we believ in Jesus Christ, and we believe that he died for our sins then we can know God. because Jesus was the perfect sacrafice.

All forms of life destroyed because of one imperfect species - Genesis 6:5,7, 7:23.

yes this happened becasue we were God's pride and joy, the only part of creation that could choose to worship him, or not. choose to love him or not. and the forms of life that were in the sea did not die, and he saved Noah and his family too (becasue Noah found favor with God). and the great flood has been poven.

Human sacrifice commanded by God - Leviticus 27:28,29.

out of context- what the verse actually says that if God told the isrealites to kill their enemy(which happened often in the old testament) they should kill them and not try to go around it. i know this sounds harsh, but it is because they did not do as God commanded that a lot of bad things happened to them. And it wasn't like they were just running around killing people either, the people God was asking them to kill were people like our present Taliban.

God agrees that Jephthah sacrifices his daughter as a thanksgiving - Judges 11:29-40.

Jephthah was making a vow before God to sacrifice whatever greeted him when he returned home, if God would allow him to end the wars that had been going on for years. God said okay. so it was because of Jephthah love for God that he was willing to give God his only daughter. Jephthah also knew it is better not to make a vow at all than to make one to God and to break it. Jephthah's daughter even knew what was to happen to her, and because of this she was allowed to prepare for 2 months.

i will continue this in a pm to loco and anyone else who wants to know more.

 

[saturn_boy96]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Nov 21 2003, 03:15 PM
But for general purpose, it is called science, physics, chemistry, thermal dynamics, and a whole assortment of PROVEABLE facts, not blind faith in a faceless entity that only exist in the minds of the christian world. Oh wait they have a reason for that too don't they.

there is no eveidence that suggests that evolution is even a possibility. it is not observable, and it is not repeatable. evolution cannot even try to be called a fact.

 

[B16]

Originally posted by saturn_boy96+Nov 21 2003, 12:13 PM-->

Originally posted by B16@Nov 21 2003, 02:20 PM
saturn_boy96

@Nov 21 2003, 11:04 AM
where does the new trait come from?

the new trait would be errors in splitting the DNA.

what happens when DNA with errors replicates itself?

it is passed on, hence the new trait

 

[saturn_boy96]

Originally posted by B16+Nov 21 2003, 04:30 PM-->

Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 21 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by B16@Nov 21 2003, 02:20 PM
saturn_boy96

@Nov 21 2003, 11:04 AM
where does the new trait come from?

the new trait would be errors in splitting the DNA.

what happens when DNA with errors replicates itself?

it is passed on, hence the new trait

nope, wrong. the body attacks the cell with errors. this is how tumors occur.

 

[silver]

then the person with mutated DNA will die and others will live. the only time a mutation will be passed on is if it is not debilitating and if the organism with the mutation can live long enough to reproduce.

example: giraffes began as a horse-like animal, but ones with longer necks survived longer since they had access to more sources of food....or something like that

 

[B16]

Originally posted by saturn_boy96+Nov 21 2003, 01:39 PM-->

Originally posted by B16@Nov 21 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 21 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by B16@Nov 21 2003, 02:20 PM
saturn_boy96

@Nov 21 2003, 11:04 AM
where does the new trait come from?

the new trait would be errors in splitting the DNA.

what happens when DNA with errors replicates itself?

it is passed on, hence the new trait

nope, wrong. the body attacks the cell with errors. this is how tumors occur.

no, you're wrong. some dna mutations do make it. this is how evolution happens, those that carry the traits, survive and have more offspring that carry that trait.

 

[saturn_boy96]

name one.

check this out:
A female human, on the other hand, already possesses her lifetime supply of eggs--with about 33 cell divisions behind them--by the time she is a late-stage fetus. When a thirty-year-old man breeds with a thirty-year-old woman, his DNA has been copied 430 times against her 33. With about thirteen times as many errata in his DNA, about 185 of the 200 copying mistakes in each human conception may come from the sperm. However, a woman's eggs are more likely to carry serious errors in chromosome numbers, and these errors increase with maternal age. Some disorders, such as Down syndrome, are the result of eggs that deliver the wrong number of chromosomes during conception.

All the DNA messages in a sperm and an egg can be compared with all the text in two sets of encyclopedias. If publishers made errors in book production at the same rate fathers and mothers do in transcribing their DNA, buyers of Britannica would receive sets with 200 printing errors on average, and half the time they'd be sent the wrong number of books.

 

[jiahanhao]

Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 21 2003, 06:59 PM
name one.

i can name at least 5...

penicillin resistancy in bacterium, g6pd deficiency in malarial environments, duffy negative antigens, lighter skincolor in areas with lower UV radiation (vitamin production anyone?),sickle cell anemia heterozygotes...

go back to school bible-thumper

 

[jiahanhao]

Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 21 2003, 06:59 PM
name one.

check this out:
A female human, on the other hand, already possesses her lifetime supply of eggs--with about 33 cell divisions behind them--by the time she is a late-stage fetus. When a thirty-year-old man breeds with a thirty-year-old woman, his DNA has been copied 430 times against her 33. With about thirteen times as many errata in his DNA, about 185 of the 200 copying mistakes in each human conception may come from the sperm. However, a woman's eggs are more likely to carry serious errors in chromosome numbers, and these errors increase with maternal age. Some disorders, such as Down syndrome, are the result of eggs that deliver the wrong number of chromosomes during conception.

All the DNA messages in a sperm and an egg can be compared with all the text in two sets of encyclopedias. If publishers made errors in book production at the same rate fathers and mothers do in transcribing their DNA, buyers of Britannica would receive sets with 200 printing errors on average, and half the time they'd be sent the wrong number of books.

This has nothing to do with your initial argument...

 

[saturn_boy96]

it only explains that human DNA is filled with errors. errors that cause deformities, none of which have ever bettered the human race.

here:

Evolutionists say that mutations are the source of new genetic material, and they point to development of antibiotic resistant bacteria from a population of nonresistant bacteria as evidence. This does not support their claim, because the resistance is already present in a small number of the bacteria except for the occasional point mutation examined below. The nonresistant bacteria die, while the resistant bacteria survive and begin to multiply just about the time the patient thinks he is getting better. Maybe this has happened to you. Your doctor does another culture and sensitivity test, discovers that you are now infected with a resistant strain of the same bacteria, and orders a new antibiotic. This time, if there are no bacteria carrying a gene for resistance, you get better.

[edit] also in response to the sickle cell anemia, the reason why this doesn't work is because it is caused by a defective gene. a gene that has lost genetic data.

it also does not work because it will never take over the population, it will always be stuck in a select few.

 

[jiahanhao]

Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 21 2003, 07:14 PM
it only explains that human DNA is filled with errors. errors that cause deformities, none of which have ever bettered the human race.

No, it says nothing about how mutation only causes deformity. How on earth do you think sickle cell anemia came about? It's beneficial in the heterozygote in areas with high occurance of malaria. If you believe that micro-evolution is wrong, come up with something to disprove it, don't spout the same bullshit that every bible-thumping contradicting fool comes up with.